What I understand is that FS20 renders the landscape to a distance of up to 600 km, what you are seeing depending on the height. At Concorde max altitude of 18 km, the horizon is at about 480 km and the ground details are, I suppose, barely visible.

What I wonder is a NOE flight, 450 knots at 200 feet.

Edited November 30, 20196 yr by domkle

@Theboot100 already perfectly answered based on what Asobo said in their interviews.

If your PC is struggling (low pc specs or high aircraft speed doesn't matter), the LOD will drop to maintain good framerate.

The same goes for your internet speed: "The better the bandwith, the better the experience" (LOD)

That is as simple as that.

 

Edited November 30, 20196 yr by Noooch

7 hours ago, Murmur said:

Infact it would be able to handle it, but using pre-cached mode or a very fast connection speed. I was curious about this issue too, but so far nobody asked Asobo devs about this.

I've seen no demonstration of this pre-cached mode. How does it work? You feed it a flight plan and it determines from that how much data needs to be downloaded? What if it's greater than the available space on someone's SSD? What happens then?

4 hours ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

Remember you can always pre-download/pre-cache, and specifically for a flight plan beforehand, which I imagine most tubers will use. As a practical matter, it shouldn't be an issue if you plan ahead.

See above. How does this work? How long for the data to be downloaded? Do I have to wait 30 mins before I can take-off?

4 hours ago, FDEdev said:

Another point is that although Concorde is rather fast, it's only fast at very high altitude where the LOD is a lot lower. M0.2 at 5000ft is most likely more demanding than M2.0 at FL500. 

M0.9 between 50 and 1500ft will be the real challenge.

Not quite true. Concorde was often cleared faster than 250kts below 10,000ft after take-off. Climb rates over southern England towards the accel point woud typically have been 350kts up to FL260 where 395kts IAS was maintained. At the accel point whilst there would be no land directly ahead there would be to either side for a while.

At the other end 350kts down to 10,000ft was the norm mainly over ocean but not always. These speeds are going to place far more demands on downloading data that pottering around in a Cessna. I doubt any streaming sim could draw scenery with your last example.

Microsoft really do need to demonstrate a fast low-level flight to push the sim to its limits.

2 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

What about server lag especially during busy times and days of the week?  What about server maintenance and server downtime?  Will we not be able to play while servers are down?

How many devices do you have connected to your internet/router at one time?  I suspect my speed will be slower with two computers, 3 iPads, a PS4, Netflix streaming tv service and 3 cell phones all connected at once...

I’ve been saying since the announcement that your internet speed and bandwidth will make all the difference in quality visuals over your CPU and GPU!.

I'm lucky being retired and the only occupant of the house. No conflicting demands on my download speeds and I fly between 10:00 - 16:00. Others will have far more demands such as children on YouTube. That will be an issue.

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've seen no demonstration of this pre-cached mode. How does it work? You feed it a flight plan and it determines from that how much data needs to be downloaded? What if it's greater than the available space on someone's SSD? What happens then?

See above. How does this work? How long for the data to be downloaded? Do I have to wait 30 mins before I can take-off?

Not quite true. Concorde was often cleared faster than 250kts below 10,000ft after take-off. Climb rates over southern England towards the accel point woud typically have been 350kts up to FL260 where 395kts IAS was maintained. At the accel point whilst there would be no land directly ahead there would be to either side for a while.

At the other end 350kts down to 10,000ft was the norm mainly over ocean but not always. These speeds are going to place far more demands on downloading data that pottering around in a Cessna. I doubt any streaming sim could draw scenery with your last example.

Microsoft really do need to demonstrate a fast low-level flight to push the sim to its limits.

I'm lucky being retired and the only occupant of the house. No conflicting demands on my download speeds and I fly between 10:00 - 16:00. Others will have far more demands such as children on YouTube. That will be an issue.

Well from what I've read when we are in flight setup and airport selection we can scroll around the globe, zoom in and select places to fly like that.  Perhaps we can pre cache areas by in a similar system where we select areas via a globe

If I recall correctly if we don't have an area and are flying offline the sim will switch to autogen mode for that area

Edited November 30, 20196 yr by Theboot100

3 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

What about server lag especially during busy times and days of the week?  What about server maintenance and server downtime?  Will we not be able to play while servers are down?

 

How many devices do you have connected to your internet/router at one time?  I suspect my speed will be slower with two computers, 3 iPads, a PS4, Netflix streaming tv service and 3 cell phones all connected at once...

 

I’ve been saying since the announcement that your internet speed and bandwidth will make all the difference in quality visuals over your CPU and GPU!

 

 

.

Azure is one of the big distributed cloud systems with a lot of redundancy built in.  Downtime and server maintenance are not an issue, it's not just 1 server. Its hundred of servers where more are created on the fly as demand increases.

How often have you fired up YouTube and it's down for maintenance.

8 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

Well from what I've read when we are in flight setup and airport selection we can scroll around the globe, zoom in and select places to fly like that.  Perhaps we can pre cache areas by in a similar system where we select areas via a globe

If I recall correctly if we don't have an area and are flying offline the sim will switch to autogen mode for that area

I have enough to do setting up my aircraft for a flight. I don't need the extra workload of using a map and selecting areas to be downloaded. Early days but this side of things needs explaining better. Hopefully that will come as the sim develops.

43 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Not quite true. Concorde was often cleared faster than 250kts below 10,000ft after take-off. Climb rates over southern England towards the accel point woud typically have been 350kts up to FL260 where 395kts IAS was maintained. At the accel point whilst there would be no land directly ahead there would be to either side for a while.

At the other end 350kts down to 10,000ft was the norm mainly over ocean but not always. These speeds are going to place far more demands on downloading data that pottering around in a Cessna. I doubt any streaming sim could draw scenery with your last example.

Looks like 'high speed' means something completely different for you than for me.   M2.0 @ FL500 = 1147kts, THAT'S what I call fast.

Concorde and quite a few other airliners don't need a clearance to fly faster than 250kts below FL100 because they have to fly considerable faster due to performance reasons.

On departure and approach it's not uncommon that you fly faster than 300kts with airliners and biz jets at very low altiude, especially if ATC asks you to do so 😉

Even many biz jets have V_MO of 330kts or higher. And I can assure you that even IRL at 500ft, 300kts doesn't look that fast. 

Since we will see military jets as well sooner or later in the new sim, I can't imagine that 300kts at treetop level presents any problems for scenery loading.

 

Edited November 30, 20196 yr by FDEdev

3 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

Looks like 'high speed' is something completely different for you than for me.   M2.0 @ FL500 = 1147kts, THAT'S what I call fast.

Concorde and quite a few other airliners don't need a clearance to fly faster than 250kts below FL100 because they have to fly considerable faster due to performance reasons.

On departure and approach it's not uncommon that you fly faster than 300kts with airliners and biz jets at very low altiude, especially if ATC asks you to do so 😉

Even many biz jets have V_MO of 330kts or higher. And I can assure you that even IRL at 500ft, 300kts doesn't look that fast. 

Since we will see military jets as well sooner or later in the new sim, I can't imagine that 300kts at treetop level presents any problems for scenery loading.

 

Obviously Mach 2 is fast but 99% of the time that was over ocean so I don’t envisage a problem with how the ocean is reproduced. There were only a couple of examples where she flew supersonic over land and it’s that I’m interested in.

Inbound Concorde always had to limit her speed to 250 kts below 10,000. ATC rules. Outbound, clearance would be given as soon as practical but she was perfectly safe below 250kts, just heavy on the fuel.

I don’t want to see any more low speed flights in the Microsoft videos. I want to see them push the limits of the sim with typical user download speeds and even below average ones so potential customers can evaluate its performance.

39 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Outbound, clearance would be given as soon as practical but she was perfectly safe below 250kts

It's not so much about safety, it's about efficiency. Concorde still had the nose lowered and required vortex lift below 300kts.

That's the same as flying with extended flaps/slats on a conventional aircraft and you always try to clean up and accelerate to the optimum climb speed ASAP.

Edited November 30, 20196 yr by FDEdev

@FDEdev, I agree and that's why ATC on both sides of the pond would give her clearance to exceed 250kts asap. When landing you only have to look at N2 at 88% on approach to realise how much drag a delta wing aircraft created. She was built for speed of course.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've seen no demonstration of this pre-cached mode. How does it work? You feed it a flight plan and it determines from that how much data needs to be downloaded? What if it's greater than the available space on someone's SSD? What happens then?

See feature Discovery Series ep1, they explain how it works...

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have enough to do setting up my aircraft for a flight. I don't need the extra workload of using a map and selecting areas to be downloaded. Early days but this side of things needs explaining better. Hopefully that will come as the sim develops.

Asobo is trying to accomodate everyone with their 3 options but it seems they didn't think about people who don't have a good internet and still want 2 Petabytes of data instantly on their computer... Oh wait, they did 🙂

If you don't want to download in pre-cache mode the area you want to fly in, you have 3 options:

- Fly in online mode as you have a descent connection

- Fly in offline mode if you don't have a descent connection and you don't want to pre-cache it

- Stick with P3D

 

5 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

 I suspect my speed will be slower with two computers, 3 iPads, a PS4, Netflix streaming tv service and 3 cell phones all connected at once...

I think so too. Maybe Microsoft should offer a device together with MSFS that kills internet connection for all except us in our houshold, once we decide to go flying 😊 

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have enough to do setting up my aircraft for a flight. I don't need the extra workload of using a map and selecting areas to be downloaded. Early days but this side of things needs explaining better. Hopefully that will come as the sim develops.

True but that would be only if you wanted to fly offline.

I think one of the many things most ga pilots will want to do is fly around there home town and would cache that area

It all comes down to really is to have a realistic looking real world environment modelled in 3d where you can fly to your own realistic looking house takes a lot of storage space.

So we either get some killer sized hard drives, or we use digital streaming for this data.  Personally I don't have a problem with this, as that is the way all technology is going.  Its no different than watching a Netflix show, YouTube, Twitch, Prime, Streamed tv etc.  And the data usage is not really anymore than watching a high quality stream.

26 minutes ago, bernd1151 said:

I think so too. Maybe Microsoft should offer a device together with MSFS that kills internet connection for all except us in our houshold, once we decide to go flying 😊 

In the opposite way, I think I read somewhere you will be able to set a maximum bandwith usage not to affect your family members while you fly!

1 hour ago, Noooch said:

See feature Discovery Series ep1, they explain how it works...

Asobo is trying to accomodate everyone with their 3 options but it seems they didn't think about people who don't have a good internet and still want 2 Petabytes of data instantly on their computer... Oh wait, they did 🙂

If you don't want to download in pre-cache mode the area you want to fly in, you have 3 options:

- Fly in online mode as you have a descent connection

- Fly in offline mode if you don't have a descent connection and you don't want to pre-cache it

- Stick with P3D

 

This pre-cache mode has not been demonstrated yet. Explaining how something works and actually seeing it in operation are two different things. I can make an informed decision when I have more info from Microsoft.

54 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

True but that would be only if you wanted to fly offline.

I think one of the many things most ga pilots will want to do is fly around there home town and would cache that area

It all comes down to really is to have a realistic looking real world environment modelled in 3d where you can fly to your own realistic looking house takes a lot of storage space.

So we either get some killer sized hard drives, or we use digital streaming for this data.  Personally I don't have a problem with this, as that is the way all technology is going.  Its no different than watching a Netflix show, YouTube, Twitch, Prime, Streamed tv etc.  And the data usage is not really anymore than watching a high quality stream.

This topic is not about GA aircraft. It's about fast aircraft that will push the limits of download speed and injection of that data into the sim.

I don't know if I want to fly offline or online since not enough info has been provided yet.

Anyway, this is my last post on this because my initial post was directed at the developers who read these boards. Perhaps they're read this post and respond in due course.