New NV driver has max framerate setting

[Beardyman 604]

Talking about frame limiter - in the past most of users claimed that external limiter ( NV ) is way better than one built into P3D.

Is it still valid opinion regarding P3D 4.5 ?

Do we still have some if any advantages with NV limiter, considering only frame limiting function ?

[GSalden 4,673]

I simply want to use Vsync On / Uimited / 30 hertz all the time, with exeption of TE GB London area. Then I want Vsync In / Uimited / 25 hertz.

I can switch with flights as I am able to use both the above configs.

However, I prefer an easier way. 

[SteveW 1,792]

Locked fps on the slider in P3D Display Settings is like Unlimited, it's always making the next frame.

VSync+On + Unlimited is a kind of limit trained to the monitor refresh frequency.

VSync=Off + Unlimited means that excess frames are lost but we can see on the display the maximum possible fps in the system.

The sim depends on highly multithreaded resources, file and network, and so an overset sim pushes out the very resources it is waiting on. FFTF/fps, or fill-in rate is governed by the loading rate capacity in that system. With FFTF=0 the landscape is not bald, nor is the fps 0 when FFTF=1. Fill-in will be delivered at some rate depending on the number of cores dedicated and the performance inherent in the system. No matter what the FFTF and no matter what settings locked or Unlimited.

Allowing slack in the system gives rise to faster fill-in and cooler temperatures. Allowing slack in the main task gives less variation in the flow rate as the scene changes complexity. A system cannot continue to deliver throughput simply with allocating more cores, it will load faster and gain fps, eventually with many cores or too much settings, we will push out the capacity for the resources.

Incidentally check out FSX VSync from the GPU control panel as is different to P3D as it works on the fullscreen exclusive mode. P3D is always a desktop window and so VSync=On is provided to overcome the desktop setting. Take FSX and window it and see that the fps (if setting allow) is higher than the refresh frequency, and no VSync in the settings. But in fullscreen it VSyncs to the monitor as most games do it with the GPU control panel.

 

[Peter Webber 339]

Once again, Steve is showing his excellent knowledge around graphics, etc, but I must read at least 10 times to even try to understand the fundamentals...🙈

Edited January 8, 2020 by Peter Webber

[Peter Webber 339]

I followed his advice years ago and the settings he suggested for me (monitor set to 30Hz, Vsync on, unlimited) is how I run my simulator to this day...

Edited January 8, 2020 by Peter Webber

[Beardyman 604]

I can read his post 10 times and still do not know if it is better to use NV or P3D limiter ? 😄

[pedrotrindade 335]

1 hour ago, Peter Webber said:

 but I must read at least 10 times to even try to understand the fundamentals...🙈

LOL Indeed

[CFIJose 5,485]

What Steve is trying to say "use whatever works for you." 😁

[SteveW 1,792]

Since there's no actual answer. Each persons expectations, desires, and PC hardware are all different.

The best thing to do is discuss the possibilities, all of which are indeed quite hard to understand. But from there, armed with a bit of test and setup know-how, hopefully some will find a solution.

There could be more than one solution, high fps low detail for fast jets or gliders making lots of turns. And low fps high detail for straight flying.

With an idea of what options and what counts, there should be some success, as gladly Peter has described. Thanks for your support on the forums guys.

Edited January 8, 2020 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

5 hours ago, Beardyman said:

I can read his post 10 times and still do not know if it is better to use NV or P3D limiter ? 😄

With high fps we can use Unlimited + VSync=On and this finds the monitor refresh frequency.

Say we have a 60Hz monitor, the fps shown on the screen (SHIFT+Z) will wobble around that frequency as each frame takes a slightly different time to complete but is steered to that frequency. 60Hz would be a high fps.

Say we want low fps but the monitor at 60Hz is too high. We can limit externally and the system relaxes at that frequency if settings allow unlimited fps higher than the monitor frequency. The output rate naturally falls back to the limit as the average fps gives the sim the time of the next frame - where we will be and where the terrain will become in the scene in the next frame..

If the limit is set with a division of the monitor refresh frequency, for example 30/20/15/10 for a 60Hz monitor, then the frame rate co-incidence is more often giving less micro stutter.

We can set the monitor refresh frequency to 30, and the VSync=On + Unlimited gives us 30fps. However the mouse will be a little floaty with low monitor refresh frequencies.

We can limit externally instead so that the monitor response remains high.

We can use for low fps (20-25) the [Internal limiter] or rather the fps lock. It's not a limit, but will deliver a solid unwavering frame rate since each frame is made for the same period ahead, irrespective of how long the frame takes to build. So we have to make sure we have enough fps in hand to handle the Locked fps. Since any slight wobble in  the CPU flow will consume some or all of the look-ahead, the system requires lots of power to keep that up. With locked 24fps we might need to be seeing 50 or more with the Unlimited + VSync=Off setting.

With VSync=On and Locked fps in low frequency can cause micro stutter, with VSync=Off we might see some shift in the scene in extreme cases of panning, but overall it is smoother.

So we have a complicated set of choices.

Edited January 8, 2020 by SteveW

[B777ER 2,486]

So if using internal limiter, set to 30, does one need Vsync on with TB? Or should both Vsync and TB be off?

[SteveW 1,792]

16 minutes ago, B777ER said:

So if using internal limiter, set to 30, does one need Vsync on with TB? Or should both Vsync and TB be off?

You have to try it out on any particular system. Try with an extreme case to see clearer results. Set Locked fps [internal limiter] slider to 20 and VSync=Off which accepts each next frame, compare that to VSync=On which ignores early frames, giving long frames or micro-stutter.

Incidentally, when panning remember that the camera setting might need adapting to the frame rate. faster and slower panning is down to the amount of turn made each frame.

Edited January 8, 2020 by SteveW

[Pe11e 812]

I'vew got new 2K monitor AOC Q3279VWFD8 32", and I struggle to setup FreeSync properly. The monitor is GSYNC compatible, I've setup custom rate from 38-76hz via CRU (Custom Resolution Utility), and the P3D still stutters like hell with the NGXu. I'm even sing RivaTuner for limiting the frames to 1/2 of refresh rate (75hz). It works for default AC11 and few other aircraft, the sim is incredibly smooth, but for NGXu it just doesn't, it seems that fps is jumping all around from 28 to 45fps (hence the stuttering). The jumps are so short that Fraps, ReShade or any other app that shows FPS will not see them at all (fps is steady), but default SHIFT+Z info will clearly show those jumps. I'm not sure is it something about latest NGXu update or something else. 
The worst thing is, many apps I use daily (Lightroom, Photoshop, and even PDF viewer) has nasty flickering and even sometimes screen goes completely black when I drag some element, and it's clearly a FreeSync issue when I use 38-76hz values to make it compatible with GSYNC. I must create a pforile for each app in NVCP and disable freesync.

The difference between 30 and 38fps locked is quite significant in terms of smoothness (8fps of difference in P3D is serious), so I'm not gonna go back to 60hz that easily.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Pe11e

[SteveW 1,792]

...the triple buffer introduces an extra frame buffer so that when the rendering of the buffer is complete, the GPU can continue and render on the 'spare' buffer. Buffers are accessed by the GPU with a pointer to the start of the frame buffer, memory itself is not moved around.

[SteveW 1,792]

When looking at the hover tips in P3D display settings it says the TB can introduce a delay, that's because it creates a look ahead frame, similar to locked setting which creates a sequence of look ahead frames which increases the delay to the length of the look ahead. Also it says the limiter can reduce the resource requirements, that is when the settings allow the buffer to complete inside the frame time..