Just now, Mace said:

How would you propose they simulate a somatogravic effect though?   That is as bad as or worse than the things you mention...yet it would not involve any map trickery.

I think the map rotational trick + screen 2D distortions could be enough for now. 

22 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

You don't understand hypoxia.

I also included a source when I first offered the information.  https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia  

I realize that you can't have sim pilots experience reduction in oxygen levels.  With that said, and understanding it is a simulation,are you saying the lips and fingertips turning blue is wrong, or too subtle, or what?  And the same question for the breathing changes?  The next question is what do you suggest? 

More sources - 

Hypoxia and breathing - https://www.medicinenet.com/hypoxia_and_hypoxemia/article.htm

blue lips/fingertips, breathing - https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)

blue lips/fingertips, breathing - https://www.ctsys.com/blog/entry/recognizing-and.html

Do I need more sources?  Because I don't think I said anything wrong about hypoxia.  I do think I understand hypoxia.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by GlideBy

well in call of duty and other FPS when you snipe, normally you hold breath and that is for a couple seconds and then the screen shakes if you abuse of that time window.

6 hours ago, mpozzi said:

Hi MsovO

It would be nice to add Spacial disorientation to the sim according to extreme manouvres or weather episodes in particular places of the world, where all instruments go out of control and the pilot hallucinations apply by a visual distortion of the world independent to the real sim to increment impact possibilities in a visually correct plane position,  with severe color hue changes, and of course twisters, waterspouts, and fuselage dynamic damage on those 1000 points, and we want wreck crashing physics according to speed and surface of impact to see if we can get away with it or not after crashing, so red bloody screen apply if it's fatal.

Personally I think no to all these wacky ideas

if the screen shakes you will have a hard time to touch controllers in the cockpit and if you have hardware they should go under alterations.

14 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

With that said, and understanding it is a simulation,are you saying the lips and fingertips turning blue is wrong, or too subtle, or what?  And the same question for the breathing changes?

But if you're trying to be realistic, how could you see your own lips turning blue in the sim? For real, by the time you've reached the point where your fingernails turn blue, you're probably too hypoxic to notice. Even if they have avatars in the new sim, would you really be sitting there looking at yourself whilst flying?

14 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

The next question is what do you suggest?

Nothing. I honestly don't think that there's any way to realistically simulate hypoxia in a sim (other than holding your breath until you pass out 😊).

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by vortex681

4 minutes ago, mpozzi said:

if the screen shakes you will have a hard time to touch controllers in the cockpit and if you have hardware they should go under alterations.

Screen shakes make me nauseous.  Another option is blurry vision.  They could do a very subtle blur, to simulate how hard it can be to detect.

subtle gaussian blur + edge threshold distortion in a repetitive manner could represent lack of oxygen.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by mpozzi

8 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

But if you're trying to be realistic, how could you see your own lips turning blue in the sim? For real, by the time you've reached the point where your fingernails turn blue, you're probably too hypoxic to notice. Even if they have avatars in the new sim, would you really be sitting there looking at yourself whilst flying?

In some screen shots they have shown pilots in the seats.  As for lips turning blue, yes it would be hard to notice.  But wasn't that our point that hypoxia can be hard to notice?

But I also mention fingertips.  If they model hands on the controls, then then can do blue fingertips.  And once again if it is hard to notice, then that matches real life.

I also mentioned breathing changes through audio clues.  Blackout has been mention, screen shakes, screen blurring, and I am sure there are more ideas.

As for realistic, blue lips, blue fingertips has happened, blurred vision has happened, etc.  You are always free to ignore those things and pretend that in real life you would never notice them.

But I think there are lots of things they can do.  To not do anything because it can't be perfect doesn't seem a good reason to me.

 

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by GlideBy

17 minutes ago, mpozzi said:

subtle gaussian blur + edge threshold distortion in a repetitive manner could represent lack of oxygen.

The problem is that, with real hypoxia, by the time you start to notice visual disturbances you're probably past the point at which you could reasonably do anything about it.

12 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

I also mentioned breathing changes through audio clues.  Blackout has been mention, screen shakes, screen blurring, and I am sure there are more ideas.

But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, you don't notice your own breathing changing. Nothing shakes. By the time you've blacked out, there's nothing you can do on your own to recover. Pilots in the real world who've survived hypoxia in flight have generally only done so because someone with them has noticed the symptoms, not because they have. When you're hypoxic, you don't usually realise anything is wrong until it's too late to do something about it. That's why there would be no point trying to simulate it.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by vortex681

Shots; climb 1,000 feet, drink a shot. Climb another 1,000 feet, drink another shot, repeat every 1,000 feet... keep looking at screen...soon you will feel spacial disorientation!

I like how a2a implement it. If you are too high with no oxygen you just black out and there is nothing you can do about it. Eventually you will come round and at much lower level! Hopefully in time to recover. Then you learn to make sure oxygen is on next time you are climbing the spit through 10000.

Very realistic as you wouldn't notice any onset and if you wake up before hitting the ground it is unlikely to be forgotten!

1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, you don't notice your own breathing changing. Nothing shakes. By the time you've blacked out, there's nothing you can do on your own to recover. Pilots in the real world who've survived hypoxia in flight have generally only done so because someone with them has noticed the symptoms, not because they have. When you're hypoxic, you don't usually realise anything is wrong until it's too late to do something about it. That's why there would be no point trying to simulate it.

(This post will be longer since you don't seem to read the links.)

Your point seems to be that pilots don't notice their own hypoxia, so they always blackout.

Here are stories of pilots that recognized it and corrected it before passing out.

"We had reached our crossing altitude before approaching the Arizona mountain ridges. My focus was on clearing the ridges with ample altitude if encountering turbulence. We were safely on the leeward side of the ridge when I noticed I had a bad headache that was soon followed by my inability to focus. The once familiar instrument panel was completely foreign.

It then occurred to me what these symptoms might suggest. I glanced down at my fingernails for additional indications."  He recoginzed the hypoxia and saved himself.  https://epicflightacademy.com/aeromedical-part-2-hypoxia/

Here is a pilot that recognized that he was slurring words and had trouble understanding ATC.  (Audio distortion can be done in a simulator.)  Starts at 1:30 https://youtu.be/05xdUV7PjOc?list=UU6lAdGnNwdizBa-WDsnAVFg

 

 

 

 

And here are study results that if you train for hypoxia, you can recognize it.

"Hypoxia training is routine in military aviation and appears to pay off. A US Air Force study of hypoxia found only 3.8 per cent of aircrew who had undergone hypoxia training had experienced loss of consciousness during a hypoxia incident. In contrast, 94 per cent of passengers lost consciousness.

A 2003 Australian Defence Force study found 86 per cent of hypoxia-trained aircrew recognised symptoms in themselves or others during real hypoxia incidents. But hypoxia training is rare in civil aviation."  https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2014/08/do-not-go-gentle-the-harsh-facts-of-hypoxia/

So hypoxia is something you can notice before blacking out.  Somewhere between 86-96% of people with training can recognize it.

Also, hypoxia is not black and white.  There are various levels of hypoxia and the symptoms.  This talks about the four stages of Hypoxia - https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)#The_Four_Stages_of_Hypoxia

Some of these symptoms can be shown or heard in a simulator, as I have suggested.  "While not everyone will experience the same symptoms when they encounter hypoxia, there are a few symptoms that are commonly reported, such as lightheadedness, headaches, shortness of breath, dizziness, cyanosis (appendages turning blue or cyan), tunnel vision, and air hunger (rapid breathing due to low blood oxygen levels)."  From a survey of 344 GA that had experienced hypoxia, and lived.  This study is an interesting read, for example "As seen in the data from this study, GA pilots experienced severe symptoms of hypoxia at altitudes of 10,000 feet or less. Even more alarming is the fact that acute hypoxia is happening to undertrained, unsuspecting pilots who may not recognize their symptoms as hypoxia."  https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1176&context=jate

So pilots in the real world can and do sometimes recognize the symptoms of hypoxia.  And if those symptoms I bolded above are included in the simulator, we might be able to save more lives.  It seems a much better option than simply ignoring it in the simulator.

It's not all that difficult to simulate things that you experience on a real flight.

For example, when using the sim, I've asked my wife to only serve me bland, soggy, tasteless food with little love or attention paid during it's preparation. When she asked me what she needs to do differently from any other meal I just said - "nothing at all".