6 minutes ago, b737800 said:

Your replies are based on the OP saying the latter, but that's actually not what he's saying.

I do get what he's saying. At the moment, no, there isn't much value to being an Insider beyond the opportunity to apply for the alpha. However, if you look at the Microsoft Insider programs for more mature products there is value as you do get to participate more, including providing more feedback etc., as those applications are in a better point to do everything the OP quoted. So what I am trying to say is that the value will very likely come when the sim is at a better point to offer more.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by goates

1 minute ago, goates said:

I do get what he's saying. At the moment, no, there isn't much value to being an Insider. However, if you look at the Microsoft Insider programs for more mature products there is value as you do get to participate more, including providing more feedback etc., as those applications are in a better point to do everything the OP quoted. So what I am trying to say is that the value will very likely come when the sim is at a better point to offer more.

I agree.

This is one of those discussions where the point of view of both "sides" isn't mutually exclusive.

It is very possible that Microsoft are doing an amazing job (which they are) of keeping us informed about the new sim. However, the actual insider area (ie not the whole fs.com site but only that single section that you have to be logged in to see) is not updated very often, and it's contents are published here and on other forums within 5 minutes of appearing.

In other words, you're more likely to see the insider content first on the discussion forum that you participate in every day, than you are on the site it actually originated on. That in itself takes away a lot of the value of that site.

Personally I'd prefer it if people here just posted "There is an update on the MS Insider area" and we all trundle over there to see it.

But that is never going to happen.

4 minutes ago, b737800 said:

It is very possible that Microsoft are doing an amazing job (which they are) of keeping us informed about the new sim.

Given how excited people and how little MS/Asobo have done to generate this excitement, I think they are doing very well right now.

5 minutes ago, b737800 said:

In other words, you're more likely to see the insider content first on the discussion forum that you participate in every day, than you are on the site it actually originated on. That in itself takes away a lot of the value of that site.

And this is where patience comes in. Looking at other Insider programs there is more activity on their sites, but those projects are much more advanced, so there would be more value to the development team in putting out or requesting more content. On the other hand, this new sim is still in early stages of development and they need to be careful they don't post too much, too soon, or overwhelm themselves with feedback. More than a few development teams have been burned because some end users took ideas in early development as features written in stone, and were then very vocal on release when these ideas didn't make the cut.

6 minutes ago, Noodle said:

"cancel culture"

Sorry, but this is a bit harsh. I certainly wasn't trying to shut you down, just provide my opinion as you provided yours.

I don't visit the insider area because it's more convenient for me to get the same information here.  But if the insider area didn't exist there wouldn't be any information to post here.  Not everyone visits Avsim, and not everything posted on the insider area is posted elsewhere, far as I can tell.  We're just lucky that everything is reposted here.

I understand your frustration, but it looks like you're taking something that's very positive and turning it into something negative.  If you don't want to personally visit the insider area, then don't.

Eventually the forum there will go live.

Hook

2 hours ago, Noodle said:

Calm down, man. If you've been here for more than 5 minutes, you'd know that I've never had anything but praise for the MSFS team and their work product.

Just how far backward must I bend over in order to provide constructive criticism about one element of their website or marketing strategy?

You're right, it is generally good form to offer solutions when identifying a problem. But I'm not a marketing major, and I don't have any insight into Microsoft or Asobo's long-term strategy. Besides, if I asked for something specific, someone like you would come along and accuse me of demanding something.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm just pointing out that there's really no middle ground when it comes to the current Insider program. You either know what the public knows, or you have early access to the software. Nothing in between.

Is that really so offensive?

I'm deeply sorry that your feelings are hurt.

However, you said that you want Microsoft and Asobo to do more for insiders, but you gave zero suggestions about it.

Maybe throw some suggestions and they may notice, otherwise patience, patience.

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

...it looks like you're taking something that's very positive and turning it into something negative.  If you don't want to personally visit the insider area, then don't.

How did you arrive at the conclusion I dont want to visit the Insider area? Do you guys even read?

And how is offering constructive criticism turning it into "something negative"?

4 hours ago, Noodle said:

What is the benefit to Insider membership for those not picked to participate in the Alpha?

 

Q: What are the benefits of joining the Insider Program?

A: Insiders will answer short surveys, have access to private forums and receive exclusive weekly newsletters. Moreover, Insiders will have exclusive opportunities to participate in Technical Alpha and Beta tests of in-progress Microsoft Flight Simulator releases and provide feedback to the development teams.

Q: Does becoming an Insider guarantee I will participate in the Preview Build Program?

A: Our goal is ensure that everyone participates in the Preview Program. But that doesn’t mean everyone will participate in every build of the Preview Build Program.

Each build will have a unique set of goals and areas of focus for the development team.  To achieve our goals and objectives per build, we will target specific Insiders who may align with those goals for that specific build. Providing your DxDiag will help ensure the Microsoft Flight Simulator Team is able to match you with the most Preview Builds possible.  Once selected, your participation is extremely valuable to the team and we encourage and appreciate all time/feedback provided.

 

/thread.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by Pastaiolo

2 hours ago, teflocarbon said:

I'm deeply sorry that your feelings are hurt.

However, you said that you want Microsoft and Asobo to do more for insiders, but you gave zero suggestions about it.

Maybe throw some suggestions and they may notice, otherwise patience, patience.

No you're not; no need to pretend you care about my precious feelings.

I already acknowledged that I didn't provide ideas. I'm not a marketing guy, but I recognize when something isn't effective. 

Having to constantly defend what is, at its core, a casual observation is honestly making the whole thing sound far more radical.

What is your fascination with repeating this nonsense about "patience". Is it because you enjoy being patronizing?

7 minutes ago, Pastaiolo said:

 

Q: What are the benefits of joining the Insider Program?

A: Insiders will answer short surveys, have access to private forums and receive exclusive weekly newsletters. Moreover, Insiders will have exclusive opportunities to participate in Technical Alpha and Beta tests of in-progress Microsoft Flight Simulator releases and provide feedback to the development teams.

Q: Does becoming an Insider guarantee I will participate in the Preview Build Program?

A: Our goal is ensure that everyone participates in the Preview Program. But that doesn’t mean everyone will participate in every build of the Preview Build Program.

Each build will have a unique set of goals and areas of focus for the development team.  To achieve our goals and objectives per build, we will target specific Insiders who may align with those goals for that specific build. Providing your DxDiag will help ensure the Microsoft Flight Simulator Team is able to match you with the most Preview Builds possible.  Once selected, your participation is extremely valuable to the team and we encourage and appreciate all time/feedback provided.

 

/thread.

Wow!

Congrats! You quoted the same thing I quoted in this very thread.

And like most everyone else who responded here, you didn't read or comprehend what I said. 

I am not talking about the participating in the Alpha. Try actually reading what I said.

Noodle, with his wishes/comments/requests etc., obviously thinks that he knows more about Alpha & Beta testing than Asobo & Microsoft does.

Really? Do you not think that their marketing department has not workshopped any & all ideas already?

Also, no doubt you are aware, or should be, that Asobo & Microsoft look at all Sim forums, not only Avsim's, & that Avsim is not & has not been appointed spokesman for the entire flight sim community?

Hundreds of pro-MSFS/Asobo posts don't mean anything if you make the mistake of making a single post containing constructive criticism, apparently.

Yeah man, obviously the sole critical observation I've ever made about Asobo means I think I'm better than them at everything. Strawman much?

 

deleted

 

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by RALF9636

It appears that that the insider logon no longer works, on further investigation a broken link was mentioned by support. Not sure how many people this affects. But for the last two days I have not been able to login.

Works for me...