Hi,

I am just getting started with flight simulators. I have a logitech extreme 3D  pro joystick and I am having some problems. I am wondering if they are a normal part of flying a simulator, or if I just have to practice more, or if a different controller would be more realistic and not have these problems.

Problems:

1. It is hard to keep the plane from rolling slightly when I am trying to fly straight and level.
2. When I use the stick for pitch or roll it is hard to prevent inadvertent yaw caused by twisting the joystick. 
3. The joystick resists movement and returns to the center position unless I keep constant pressure on it. This makes it fatiguing to fly long distances without the nose pitching up or down unless I have the throttle adjusted perfectly so the plane files level with the stick centered.

I assume if any of these are not characteristics of flying an actual plane then a more expensive controller would eliminate them. But a control yoke is a lot more expensive than a joystick.

Can anyone tell me

Would the problems I listed would be alleviated by a better quality controller?

Can anyone recommend a better controller that's not too expensive?

Here's a control yoke for $106 https://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Flight-Yoke-200-615/dp/B000056SPM

Her's another for $169 https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-yoke-system.html#945-000023

Are they okay? Is there anything less expensive that would be okay?

I am tempted to give the first ($106) a try. Would that be a worth while improvement or would something decent cost more?

Thanks

 

 

I have the same joystick and do not have that much of a problem with it.  Flying strictly by hand can be tiring.  Either engage the autopilot (if available) or learn about trimming your aircraft.  When properly trimmed, you can probably fly hands off. 😉

1 hour ago, ap4ivw said:

1. It is hard to keep the plane from rolling slightly when I am trying to fly straight and level.
2. When I use the stick for pitch or roll it is hard to prevent inadvertent yaw caused by twisting the joystick. 
3. The joystick resists movement and returns to the center position unless I keep constant pressure on it. This makes it fatiguing to fly long distances without the nose pitching up or down unless I have the throttle adjusted perfectly so the plane files level with the stick centered.

No, a more expensive controller isn't required. Only (2) is an issue with the type of controller, as a twist control for yaw (rudder) isn't conventional in real aircraft. You can fix that by unmapping it and either using auto-rudder or using a different controller (such as pedals) for controlling the rudder. If you are flying in still air, (1) is fixable by increasing your NULL zone in the centre of the roll axis. You probably wan to do this for pitch too. (3) is because you are not using elevator trim. You need to learn how to use this and map a suitable control. On your particualr joystick it is conventional to map two of the buttons under your thumb to trim up and trim down. They may already be mapped by default.

Thanks for suggesting I use trim settings. That really helps a lot. (I came up with a memory aid for the keyboard shortcuts - the home and end keys - the two phrases:  "down home", and "end up".)

I think I have a workaround for the yaw problem. I noticed the reason I was getting undesired yaw is because the joystick is shaped like an upside down L and when I put sideways pressure on the "toe" of the L it acts like a lever and puts a torque on the joystick. Now that I realize the source of the yaw I don't have any problem (that I can detect so far) eliminating it by not putting pressure on the "foot" of the L.

Microsoft Flight Simulator and X-plane have null zones configured for pitch and roll so maybe I just need more practice flying level.

Google flight simulator does not have a way to adjust joystick settings (that I can find), but now that I know about it I can tell there are null zones too.  

But I am also wondering if there would there be some way to adjust joystick settings through windows 10 or the device driver? Logitech does not seem to have any configuration software (that I can find) for the joystick. 

Is there any type of editor that I can use to see how the joystick buttons work, where if I press a button it shows whatever signals the joystick sends? I'm not sure how that really works, but I'm thinking I might be able to configure a joystick button to send the keyboard short cut for a specific command used by google flight simulator.

Thanks

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by ap4ivw

55 minutes ago, ap4ivw said:

Is there any type of editor that I can use to see how the joystick buttons work, where if I press a button it shows whatever signals the joystick sends? I'm not sure how that really works, but I'm thinking I might be able to configure a joystick button to send the keyboard short cut for a specific command used by google flight simulator.

JoytoKey works great. I use it in many games not fullly support joystick input.

But for FS/P3D it self, FSUIPC might works better, to send keystoke to some add-on that only accept that.

 

14 hours ago, ap4ivw said:

1. It is hard to keep the plane from rolling slightly when I am trying to fly straight and level.

Not sure what plane you fly, some prop could do this IRL,due to torque and P-factor.  Also, some airplane may not natually stable in roll, the roll will slowly exaggerate itself.

 

Personally I  rather like Stick than Yoke, as I fly a lot kind of planes and helos, it's just feels more nature to fly a Boeing with Stick than fly a heli with Yoke...

My suggestion is to get a cheap Rudder pedal for addition, than replace a yoke (which, you also will need a separate Rudder anyway...)

15 hours ago, ap4ivw said:

Can anyone recommend a better controller that's not too expensive?

This one is pretty good and not too expensive, I did a video review of it:

Keep in mind that your present joystick is probably okay if you tweak the settings a bit. Try going into the flight sim controller options and setting the 'null zone' a little bit wider. That will probably help smooth out any small unintentional control inputs.

Yokes are okay, but quite a lot of aeroplanes use a stick anyway, so it's no bad thing to use a stick rather than a yoke and as C2615 said, they are a bit more flexible for other stuff such as flying a helicopter in your sim. Every Airbus, with the exception of the very first one (A300) uses a stick rather than a yoke and the vast majority of new light aircraft tend to have a stick rather than a yoke too. I guess it's probably something to do with the fact that most new pilots these days are probably used to joysticks. If that trend keeps up, maybe we'll se an airliner which uses a PS3 controller one day, or is controlled from your phone via an app lol.

The only bad thing about stick in the real world rather than yokes, is that the sidesticks on an Airbus are not mechanically liked to one another and they are also at the side of the pilots too, so unlike on a typical Boeing airliner with its traditional yokes where you can actually see if the other pilot is doing stuff, one pilot can't really tell if the other pilot is putting some inputs into their controller on an Airbus. That has led to some accidents, most notably the crash of Air France Airbus A330 flight AF447, where one of the co-pilots - Pierre-Cédric Bonin - rather foolishly kept the stick back even though the aircraft was stalled. Unfortunately, because of the control stick arrangement in the A330, where you cannot really tell if someone is doing something stupid, it was only when one of the other pilots said that he didn't understand what was happening and that they'd tried everything that Bonin said: 'but I've had the stick back the whole time!' When the Captain heard this, he knew what was wrong and tried to sort it out, but by then the aircraft was in a deep stall and too low over the ocean for a recovery to be effected. Ironically enough, if the crew had literally just left the controls alone when the autopilot initially disconnected because of its iced up pitot tube, the aeroplane would probably have just flown itself out of trouble with no control inputs at all.

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Chock

37 minutes ago, Chock said:

The only bad thing about stick in the real world rather than yokes, is that the sidesticks on an Airbus are not mechanically liked to one another and they are also at the side of the pilots too, so unlike on a typical Boeing airliner with its traditional yokes where you can actually see if the other pilot is doing stuff,

Bombardier says their stick on CS(now A220) are linked via FFB, I guess that would be the new trend.

My complain about Buses' stick are the fact that they use C* rather than C*U

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by C2615

18 hours ago, ap4ivw said:

I have a logitech extreme 3D  pro joystick

one of the "best" in my opinion.

as for you #2, one should note about any sim joystick (which "resembles an airbus sidestick " & not a centre stick of GA planes which they don't) should be beside your knee with your elbow fixed & resting securely on a "chairs arm") so that roll & pitch movements are from the wrist.

putting a joystick in front of you as you would a yoke is not recommended .... and buying a set of pedals is plus a second 3D if you need a tiller (sooner ot later)

22 hours ago, ap4ivw said:

This makes it fatiguing to fly long distances without the nose pitching up or down unless I have the throttle adjusted perfectly so the plane files level with the stick centered.

welcome to the real .... 'tis about trim & power & yes an "out of trim" aircraft  will "self-centre" ie resist "out of trim" even in a roll (unless you are asking about FBW)

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by vadriver

Also, several aircraft have roll trim and rudder trim adjusters, so if you wish, you could apply some roll trim within the sim, to help with problem 1. 

I need a joystick without spring tension for helicopter simulations.

I have read and seen videos about how it is possible to greatly reduce spring tension on a joystick by using zip ties to keep the spring compressed.

I am wondering which is more realistic for flying fixed-wing aircraft, high spring tension or low?

Thanks

 

Edited March 3, 20206 yr by ap4ivw

On 3/3/2020 at 1:08 PM, ap4ivw said:

I need a joystick without spring tension for helicopter simulations.

I have read and seen videos about how it is possible to greatly reduce spring tension on a joystick by using zip ties to keep the spring compressed.

I am wondering which is more realistic for flying fixed-wing aircraft, high spring tension or low?

Thanks

 

It depends on aircraft type. how it's control system designed.

For most airliners it's springs behind the yoke/stick anyway.

As my experience on Airbus Full Simulator, it's heavier than most consumer joysticks on the market, yet very smooth.

Most plastic core joystick just not smooth with friction, especially the saitek's centering mechanism... pull with little force, it won't move, but add a little more, it moves and friction drop, cause some tiny adjustment very hard.