2 hours ago, Reader said:

You completely fail to understand the status of the BBC. It is funded by something called a TV licence which we, the public pay and is often avidly critical of the government of the day, regardless of the complexion of that government and much to their annoyance. This may be an alien concept to you, apparently living in a place where everything seems from the outside at least, to be about sponsorship and influence.

Umm not quite. 

It's a tax that you are forced to pay, unless you can prove and/ or advise the government you don't have a television. 

They call it a 'TV licence' because that sounds better and simplier than a 'TV tax'   heaven forbid the plebs rising up and refusing to pay a tax, they learnt that the hard way with the poll tax 

Once again. Its a tax forced upon each household unless you jump through quite a few hoops to get out of it. 

But I'll agree 100per  cent about the sponsorship and influence. 

Edited May 16, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

People, businesses and investors are kept from spending when clothing stores are closed, theaters are closed, restaurants are closed, small businesses are closed.  That's a real problem for the economy.

Noel

In the UK as of yesterday 49% percent of the working population are being paid by the government furlough scheme.  

49%......... We are going to be crippled for decades, and  because all we had to do was close down the border in late Jan early Feb just like sensible countries did. 

Edited May 15, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

58 minutes ago, W2DR said:

I guess I should have put my tongue in both cheeks. All very good points Bob. This trip was booked way back before there was a problem. We decided a couple of weeks ago to cancel the whole thing. I'm with you, there is no way this can happen. Our south Pacific cruise was canceled 10 weeks ago and we still haven't seen the refund. Lord only knows how long this one will take. Stay safe...73...Doug

It's not going away.  Just like it didn't just turn up at a market. 

So long as countries allow freedom of movement on their borders and don't test, its not going away.  Ever.

If the UK and USA did what OZ, NZ, Russia, Singapore and Korea did we would not be in such Dire Straights. 

However can you imagine the backlash  if the UK started banning people from arriving into Heathrow.  People would call us fascists, yet no one gives a fig if other countries (including China) doing it.  PC culture is going to be our downfall. 

If I told you the hoops we are having to go through on our Virgin shanghai cargo only flights at the moment you would be amazed. 

Edited May 15, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

Some of the argument I hear here is that centers that shut down early and imposed restrictions earlier than those that did not do not take into account that those that closed earlier benefited from those that closed later because the late closers kept the economy going for longer.

Noel

 

2 hours ago, Alan_A said:

You're missing my point.  Businesses can be fully open but people won't necessarily go in - not if they perceive a risk.  You can lead them to water, but...  they'll defer purchases and avoid settings they consider unsafe.  Voluntary behavior is a huge determining factor here.

That's not demonstrated by where I live.  WalMart, Albertsons Super Market, Home Depot, Office Max, Target, are not lacking for cars in the parking lots.  People here are not afraid to shop for what they want and need.  There is not much voluntary staying away from stores that are open.

Noel

51 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

In 2009 the H1N1 Swine Flu infected millions of Americans, and thousands died from it.  However, I don't recall the reaction by the media or the response from govt. being anywhere close to what we've seen with Covid-19.

Why didn't we shut everything down then in order to save as many people as possible? 

Dave

In 2009 the government hadn't yet learned how far it could go in restricting people after 9/11.

Noel

 

After 11 years Penny's is filing for bankruptcy.  I suppose more will follow the longer we stay shut down.

Noel

What are your chances of actually contracting Coronavirus?  No scarum harum hype.

https://www.matherhospital.org/wellness-at-mather/what-are-your-chances-of-catching-covid-19/

Noel

30 minutes ago, birdguy said:

That's not demonstrated by where I live.  WalMart, Albertsons Super Market, Home Depot, Office Max, Target, are not lacking for cars in the parking lots.  People here are not afraid to shop for what they want and need.  There is not much voluntary staying away from stores that are open.

Noel

As long as they’re all wearing masks and trying to stay some distance from each other, there is nothing wrong with businesses opening.

17 minutes ago, birdguy said:

After 11 years Penny's is filing for bankruptcy.  I suppose more will follow the longer we stay shut down.

Noel

Penny’s has been on the deathbed for years. Weren’t you essentially saying somewhere back there its a good thing to cull the herd with this disease?

28 minutes ago, birdguy said:

In 2009 the government hadn't yet learned how far it could go in restricting people after 9/11.

Noel

 

This has got nothing to do with democracy or liberty or the constitution or democrats or republicans. It’s just some simple common sense. Stop trying to inject that kind of politics into a health issue. It’s that kind of interference with health advice and objectives that is causing the usa to come out worse than otherwise.

18 minutes ago, birdguy said:

What are your chances of actually contracting Coronavirus?  No scarum harum hype.

https://www.matherhospital.org/wellness-at-mather/what-are-your-chances-of-catching-covid-19/

Noel

And that is why you need to wear your mask. To keep your risk low.

Edited May 16, 20206 yr by KevinAu

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

In 2009 the H1N1 Swine Flu infected millions of Americans, and thousands died from it.  However, I don't recall the reaction by the media or the response from govt. being anywhere close to what we've seen with Covid-19.

Why didn't we shut everything down then in order to save as many people as possible? 

This article explains.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-10/how-coronavirus-compares-with-2009-s-h1n1-in-spread-and-reaction

Martin

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Again, misrepresenting what I'm saying. 

Covid-19 is serious, just not as deadly as the media is hyping it up to be.

I can make a map of Influenza infections and deaths that would scare the daylights out of people.  About 13 million Americans have contracted Influenza so far this season.  About 30,000-60,000 Americans die of Influenza each year. 

In 2009 the H1N1 Swine Flu infected millions of Americans, and thousands died from it.  However, I don't recall the reaction by the media or the response from govt. being anywhere close to what we've seen with Covid-19.

Why didn't we shut everything down then in order to save as many people as possible?

Dave, 2 simple points:

1. U.S. flu season lasts between 20 and 27 weeks and causes 62,000 deaths at the upper end of the typical range.
   As of today (05/15), Coronavirus has killed 85,776 Americans in just 15 weeks since February 1.
   This death total is currently almost 40% higher than the high-end of a typical flu season, notwithstanding that 45 states had at least some form of lockdown imposed to curb the rate of spread.
   
   Whether you believe it was effective or not, the transmission rate was slowed by a large number of people sheltering at home.
    
2. H1N1 killed 'only' 12,469 Americans in the 1-year period April 12, 2009 - April, 10 2010.
   Very little attempt was made by anyone to socially distance to prevent its spread.
   The pros and cons were obviously weighed-up by elected officials and it was decided that drastic measures were not necessary. Whether or not you agree with that line of (in)action is another story.

I hope this explains why Coronavirus is being treated very differently to anything that we have encountered since 1918.

45 minutes ago, birdguy said:

What are your chances of actually contracting Coronavirus?  No scarum harum hype.

https://www.matherhospital.org/wellness-at-mather/what-are-your-chances-of-catching-covid-19/

According to that chart, I was 'low risk' and yet still caught it.
Admittedly, that's only anecdotal evidence and it doesn't say that you cannot contract it under those circumstances, but I am the proof that it is still very possible. No scarum harum hype here.

 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

That's not demonstrated by where I live.  WalMart, Albertsons Super Market, Home Depot, Office Max, Target, are not lacking for cars in the parking lots.  People here are not afraid to shop for what they want and need.  There is not much voluntary staying away from stores that are open.

And watch the number of Covid-19 cases rise rapidly again of this scene is being widely repeated across the country.
 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

In 2009 the government hadn't yet learned how far it could go in restricting people after 9/11.

Don't conflate political conspiracy theory nonsense with actions based upon science.

While there are some who want to limit individuals' rights, they are a tiny minority, not in the political mainstream and certainly not in positions of power.

Both sides of the political divide want a return to an open economy and society. They may not agree on how nor when to do it, but they want a return to the same old mud slinging and fighting in the ditch that they are used to as soon as practicable.