WebAssembly

[MatthewS 761]

21 hours ago, mSparks said:

That should also give you an idea of the speed difference, takes over a second to display "Hello Lua".

That github repo hasn't been updated in 3 years and also the 1 second you talk about is no doubt related to the page startup, I see this in the .js

new WebAssembly.Instance()

So sure, I imagine every FS2020 WASM add-in will have a once-off startup overhead upon load and then it's just going to remain resident in FS2020 address space.

Edited March 31, 2020 by MatthewS

[mSparks 2,086]

5 hours ago, MatthewS said:

FS2020 WASM add-in will have a once-off startup overhead

plus unneeded and unnecessery ram allocation overhead

plus integrity check overhead

plus massive sys call overhead

plus double api overhead

plus double VM overhead

plus lack of cache hit overhead

resulting in twice the ram for half the speed as a rule of thumb.

obviously 1 second instead of 1 billionth of a second is an extreme example. but hey, lua is the defacto standard systems language for every flight sim aircraft released in the last 5 years, so maybe it doesn't matter?

Personally, I don't think developers were screaming out for "like lua only much much slower and even harder to debug".

Edited March 31, 2020 by mSparks

[MatthewS 761]

@mSparks I keep forgetting you're a FS2020 hater... Well obviously Asobo know more about their FS2020 WASM implementation than you (or me) and are supposedly happy with performance.

[WarpD 824]

7 hours ago, MatthewS said:

Hiding behind the NDA doesn't validate your argument.

Explain then, in general terms, why your "super duper" avionics cannot be reimplemented in a native "WASM" based aircraft.

I suspect you just don't want to go to the effort of rewriting your code to fit the new FS2020 paradigm, which I agree would be a PITA.

It's not about an NDA... I don't believe it would be appropriate for me to discuss Asobo and their efforts.

Your second sentence is mildly taunting with the "super duper" quip.  It's the type of taunt a troll would use.  Your final part "native WASM" shows you really don't even understand what you're talking about.

Your third sentence is a mild attack on me that really has no basis of fact... just your opinion.

I suspect you don't know a thing about what I do with regards to writing aircraft avionics and systems for high fidelity simulations.  You're actually starting to look like a forum troll at this point.

[MatthewS 761]

35 minutes ago, WarpD said:

Your final part "native WASM" shows you really don't even understand what you're talking about

Taken out of context like a true pro....  I said "native "WASM" based aircraft" meaning an aircraft following the FS2020 paradigm of implementing its code as WASM rather than some legacy mode "franken-plane" with C++ code interfacing with FS2020 via "sim-connect".

 

35 minutes ago, WarpD said:

Your third sentence is a mild attack on me that really has no basis of fact... just your opinion.

Then what's your excuse? You offer none... I certainly wouldn't want to rework all my code either.

 

35 minutes ago, WarpD said:

I suspect you don't know a thing about what I do with regards to writing aircraft avionics and systems for high fidelity simulations.  You're actually starting to look like a forum troll at this point.

Again, have a look Asobo's default aircraft, the glass cockpits seem rather "high fidelity" to me. So what's so special about your avionics that can't be implemented as WASM? 

You don't give any justification for your stance, simply go on the attack and hide behind the NDA.

Enlighten me, give me one concrete example of why you can't manage with WASM?

Edited April 1, 2020 by MatthewS

[mp15 138]

I don't like sim-connect or wasm, both sound cody cody, I want a high end application to calculate dynamics in geometric shapes with a sophisticated open CL viewr,  I want an engine design API and being able to embed pre-made electronics in cockpit is that too much to ask?

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

I keep forgetting you're a FS2020

I'm as impressed with what Asobo have showcased as the next person.

If this was an Asobo-Laminar-Sony collaboration I would be agreeing with every bit of hyperbole posted by every word not allowed spambot and troll that cant stand to be disagreed with that has so far crossed my path.

As it stands, I expect MSFT to do what MSFT always does, go out of their way to screw over developers and users alike.

WASM just yet another example of probably being right about that.

Cant say Im happy about it,

why are you?

[mp15 138]

@WarpD it would be nice if you explain why you are not being able to re code your aircrafts on web assembly thanks.

[WarpD 824]

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

Again, have a look Asobo's default aircraft, the glass cockpits seem rather "high fidelity" to me. So what's so special about your avionics that can't be implemented as WASM? 

You don't give any justification for your stance, simply go on the attack and hide behind the NDA.

Enlighten me, give me one concrete example of why you can't manage with WASM?

They are not.  You state that G1000 is "high fidelity".  Based on what?  Still images?  Video of the aircraft being hand flown around?  Seen anyone build a flight plan with it?  Seen the topography display?  How about terrain?  Traffic?  Chart? Plates?  No?  So... how do you know it's "high fidelity"?

I'll say again... there is no NDA.  Second time I've said it... maybe you'll see it this time.

I have... you've just ignored it.

[MatthewS 761]

50 minutes ago, WarpD said:

They are not.  You state that G1000 is "high fidelity".  Based on what?  Still images?  Video of the aircraft being hand flown around?  Seen anyone build a flight plan with it?  Seen the topography display?  How about terrain?  Traffic?  Chart? Plates?  No?  So... how do you know it's "high fidelity"?

So please explain then why your glass cockpit is just too "high fidelity" to be implemented using FS2020's WASM approach.

Still waiting for a single example of what you find so difficult.

 

54 minutes ago, WarpD said:

I'll say again... there is no NDA

No NDA? So your not in the alpha program? So you don't have access to FS2020? Yet you seem to be an expert on what's not possible with WASM in FS2020...

[MatthewS 761]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

WASM just yet another example of probably being right about that.

The problem is you (and several others in this thread) give no actual evidence as to why Asobo's FS2020 WASM implementation is not performant or capable. 

All I'm hearing is conjecture from people that seem to have a MS persecution complex.

To the contrary, what we do have, is evidence from the videos that the default aircraft (which I can only presume are using WASM based avionics) feature glass (and "steam") cockpits that look very performant and capable.

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, MatthewS said:

give no actual evidence as to why Asobo's FS2020 WASM implementation is not performant or capable. 

There are lots and lots of reasons and I have given several.

To reiterate, yet again, one specific example, probably very relevant to FSX/P3D/Windows only developers

Would be using any part of DirectX. since WASM does not support DirectX, because its closed source and windows only.

In fact, anything that uses "XXXX 3rd party library which is closed source", or "ZZZZ which is windows only", cannot be compiled to WASM.

Edited April 1, 2020 by mSparks

[devgrp 1,233]

5 hours ago, MatthewS said:

The problem is you (and several others in this thread) give no actual evidence as to why Asobo's FS2020 WASM implementation is not performant or capable. 

All I'm hearing is conjecture from people that seem to have a MS persecution complex.

To the contrary, what we do have, is evidence from the videos that the default aircraft (which I can only presume are using WASM based avionics) feature glass (and "steam") cockpits that look very performant and capable.

Hey man they are all experts 🙄, they seem to know everything even though they aren't even the ones developing the sim, go figure. From what I've seen so far from asobo and Microsoft I have total confidence in them, that they will deliver. 

[Joachim 6]

14 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Help did arrive, many thanks to those involved.

Cheers, Rob.

Did someone reach out to you? sorry I just saw the notification today.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Joachim

[GlideBy 324]

25 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

how does one go about implementing RTX and more specifically Mesh Shading and Sampler feedback in a WASM context?

Asobo has already stated that they don't currently support ray tracing, nor is directx 12 supported.  And if you have to have RTX, what happens on the cards that are not RTX?

Are you saying you can only create what you want with these technologies?