1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

the issue for me is one of accelerated support via DX12

AFIAK FS2020 doesn't support DX12 at launch, an update for DX12 is coming later.  

 

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Is Asobo going to keep updating wrappers for WASM as nVidia and/or AMD bring out new technology that significantly improves visuals and performance?

Yes.  If Asobo are using WASM for their aircraft and they want to use the new tech afforded by DX12 then they will have to update their "wrappers" thus giving all 3rd party devs new features to play with.

Visually, what we have see in the Asobo videos (DX11) is outstanding IMO so I'm not sure why you're holding out for DX12 support, ray tracing maybe? AFAIK it kills performance anyway.

Also, surely compatibility with all platforms (ie XBox and PC) is important for your sales? Not sure what you develop, but I imagine the XBox market might be a large percentage of your sales, so why exclude that entire market for the sake of some PC-only DX12 eye candy?

 

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Sounds like this was partially aimed my way ... it's very difficult to get into details with an NDA present so I'll stick to some generic details.

Thanks for explaining, at least you actually have the alpha, unlike some others who are so downbeat on WASM.

Edited April 1, 20206 yr by MatthewS

57 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

AFIAK FS2020 doesn't support DX12 at launch

Woooooosh.

WASM doesn't support DX11 either. You are completely missing the point.

@Rob_Ainscough  The discussion started with you saying you couldn't use WASM.  Now you are changing the discussion, and talking about things that are unknown, and MS has stated otherwise.

If you have posted on the Forums the reasons why Webassembly won't work for you, then I am personally fine with that.  But so far, if I was Asobo, I see no current issues, other than possibly file access.

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

"But it's a technology many of us don't want and/or can't use to accomplish our given tasks"

Sorry, I guess I am misunderstanding the "can't use to accomplish our given task".  

 

4 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm not changing the discussion, I presented as much as I could in generic terms because that is what was asked for.  MS aren't using DX12 (currently) so what is unknown?  Asobo aren't supporting DX12, WASM has no DX12 support?  I want to use DX12 to accomplish "given tasks". 

So how can you "see no current issues" and also claim things are unknown?

I can say that it can be done because others have done it in other flight sims without using DX12, or raytracing.  So my point being that I see no issues that prevent it being done, other than possibly file access.

This discussion has changed into a wish list, not a "can't use to accomplish our given task".  So my comments were in that context.  And I am fine with you presenting a wish list.  I fully support people hoping and asking for things.

11 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

You seem to have skipped over other big concerns like being locked into the lowest common denominator because of the desire to deploy to multi-platform without code changes.  I don't want to be locked into and XBOX hardware limits for the next 5-6 years.  I don't want to be locked into iOS, Linus, Android, etc. limits ... PC is open architecture and constantly improving and I'd like to be able to grow with that technology improvements and not be dependent on Asobo or some other LCD platform.  Would you want to be locked in?  I'm assuming PC users want to see their hardware leveraged as much as possible and benefit from that visually and on the performance front?

I did say MS has already covered this, so I didn't skip it.  I also didn't comment further because it was changing the topic.  But MS have stated they plan to support the sim for many years.  They have talked about a road map for the next few years and goals they have for those.  And Asobo talked about adding DX12.  I will not discuss this further in this thread, as the topic is Webassembly, not future support.  And while this might be related, it is too far off topic for me.  

---

So, just to be clear, is there anything that currently would prevent a dev from creating something in webassembly similar to what has been created in P3D or X-Plane, or even FSX?  Other than the concern over file access?     (I am not trying to be difficult, just hoping to clear up any other misunderstandings I might have.)

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Yes.

What? 

Lack of DX12 support? That's not even a valid reason... DX12 support is coming in a future update.  

Sound's like your just another FS2020 hater, using the NDA to hide behind because you don't actually have a valid reason.

Asobo seem to have no problem implementing glass cockpits... What type of product are you developing that requires DX12 support now?

I see from your bio you have developed two airports.  So you're not an aircraft developer?  You work on scenery? 

I fail to see how that scenery experience gives you any credibility when debating WASM and it's relevance to implementing avionics.

 

22 hours ago, mSparks said:

WASM doesn't support DX11 either. You are completely missing the point.

I'm not missing the point, but I think you're missing a lot of experience, not to mention your hate for FS2020 colouring every comment you make in this forum.

FS2020 is using DX11 and I imagine Asobo are surfacing an internal API of graphics functions that devs call to draw on surfaces in FS2020. 

How else are the Asobo developers creating default aircraft using WASM?

 

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

I imagine

And there lies the "expert knowledge" behind the discussion.  One's imagination.

34 minutes ago, WarpD said:

And there lies the "expert knowledge" behind the discussion.  One's imagination.

Based on my experience.

As usual you have nothing to add to this discussion.  Are you even an alpha tester, no NDA, so apparently not. 

Still waiting for you to explain why your "super duper" avionics are just too "high fidelity" to be implemented using WASM.

Just another FS2020 hater I guess.. ho hum.

5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I've provided you with what WASM can't do and you tell I don't need to do it

You want DX12.  What do you develop?

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

but neither of you just aren't listening.   Fair enough, your choices, but don't expect anything more.

Rob, I have read everything you have posted.  I have even given you multiple opportunities to state why WASM won't work for you, beyond local file access.  You then stated that you never said that, or something along those lines.  Now you are again stating it won't work for you.  I was going to let this go, and figured you must not want to talk about it.  But then you made the above comment blaming me.  

If you you want to discuss it, I am listening.  But I don't see the point in saying it won't work, without backing up your claim.  If you don't want to discuss it, why did you bring it up in the first place?  Was it a hope that one person said they don't like it, so that would be enough for Asobo to drop all the work they have done on it?  

If your next comment on this thread doesn't state a concrete reason, then I am done responding.  And don't blame me for not listening, and don't blame Matthews either.   Because when I ask a straight question, and you simply state "Yes", it is you that isn't communicating.

11 hours ago, MatthewS said:

You want DX12.  What do you develop?

I would take what Rob says with a grain of salt. Don't you know Rob is p3d evangelist. It's funny how some of these guys have all the answers and have never developed an addon and trying to tell established developers how to do their jobs 🙄. And as you say hide behind an nda. 

Edited April 3, 20206 yr by devgrp

2 minutes ago, devgrp said:

I would take what Rob says with a grain of salt. Don't you know. Rob is p3d evangelist It's funny how some of these guys have all the answers and have never developed an addon and trying to tell established developers how to do their jobs 🙄. And as you say hide behind an nda. 

I wonder if these conversations are actually being discussed in full on the MSFS forum, where the NDA shouldn't apply. It might be an interesting read.

2 minutes ago, eaim said:

I wonder if these conversations are actually being discussed in full on the MSFS forum, where the NDA shouldn't apply. It might be an interesting read.

I would hope so, with him being so against wasm 

It's not just him.  We're ALL against WASM.  It's stupid.  The reasons why are something that we cannot be specific about due to the NDA.

Edited April 3, 20206 yr by Milviz

15 hours ago, MatthewS said:

Based on my experience.

As usual you have nothing to add to this discussion.  Are you even an alpha tester, no NDA, so apparently not. 

Still waiting for you to explain why your "super duper" avionics are just too "high fidelity" to be implemented using WASM.

Just another FS2020 hater I guess.. ho hum.

Any actual evidence of your experience is sorely lacking, to be frank. Please... list what addons you've developed for what ever version(s) of flight simulator.

On one hand you want me to claim to be an alpha tester... on the other you stated that because I say there is no NDA restricting my response I must not be... total assumptions on your part.  I could break NDA and state I'm an alpha tester, or I could state an NDA prevents me from saying one way or the other, or I could say what I have already stated... no NDA binds me to my statements.  Any of that could be true... but what it really is... is professionalism.  I choose to be professional and not make public statements about another developer's product in a manner that I feel would be inappropriate.  Whether I am an alpha tester or not doesn't really factor into the actual discussion.  I am extremely well versed in what I do for a living.  Part of that requires a rather in depth knowledge of aircraft avionics and systems emulation to be used for real world pilot training.  Part of what my experience brings is that people actually pay me to say "That's a great idea and we can do it without issue" or "No... that isn't going to be possible... here's what should really be done..."

I don't have to explain the details of what I write code-wise.  Not I, nor any other developer owes you that level of detail.  None of us.

You should stop guessing... you're on a losing streak.