1 hour ago, mSparks said:

The XBOX and PC version are [v likely] identical - "no exclusives", so anything built for MSFS2020 PC has to run identically/be identical to MSFS2020 for XBOX. even first party devs can't access the XBOX filesystem post production.

WASM likely the best they can offer.

Yes... I agree with you on this.

The Microsoft bean-counter 🤑 will be more interested in the XBox sales than the PC market... He's not going to let the subcontracted Asobo team waste their time (hence Microsoft's money) on PC exclusive features.

In case 3rd parties complex avionics is not allowed, I surely hope we will know it for certain as soon as possible.

Not because I care about it (I don't, my idea of realism puts complex avionics almost at the bottom of priorities), but because this forum will then finally get rid of all the people who like to throw sheet at MSFS, Asobo and MS at every chance they can.

Surely, once established that MSFS won't interest you, you will _not_ keep hanging around here to ruin it for everybody else, right? 😉

Say hypothetically the A320Neo is added to the Alpha. All the standard operational functions work

- most of the MCDU (disregarding potentially datalink functionality), autoflight systems (perhaps disregard some of the complex protection that Airbus is well known for)

- flight displays (including terrain radar, wx radar etc.)

- Perhaps skipping out on more complicated parts of the FBW systems just so that it only has normal law or whatever it's called.

Essentially you could complete a normal flight to real world standards.

How would that shift some of the opinions on here with regard to the 'complexity' possible in this sim?

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

But I do agree with you that FS2020 is turning out to be a real disappointment 😥

I wouldn't go quite that far.

Mostly because I didnt agree with what is surely hyperbole being spread around that amounted to microsoft dropping a full CFD flight sim rendered on Asobos lovely looking tech demo that would of course be flawless this year.

When all we had to go off was a tech demo made by a smallish development house, bought up youtubers and a large number of typical microsoft astroturfers down voting and trying their hardest to get anything that didnt agree microsoft could literally deliver the earth deleted or locked as soon as possible (Kudos to avsim mods). Mixed in with a lot of wishfull thinking.

It could very well be a good game, definitely won't be the best in my collection.

If they can solve the (very very hard) performance challenges, ESP is really feeling its age, and at least for the moment, as much as I love them and have faith they will deliver, XP11 is still too rough around the edges to really build and maintain a viable 3rd party business around. (but omg they are sooo close now)

Edited April 6, 20206 yr by mSparks

48 minutes ago, Murmur said:

In case 3rd parties complex avionics is not allowed, I surely hope we will know it for certain as soon as possible.

Not because I care about it (I don't, my idea of realism puts complex avionics almost at the bottom of priorities), but because this forum will then finally get rid of all the people who like to throw sheet at MSFS, Asobo and MS at every chance they can.

you will _not_ keep hanging around here to ruin it for everybody else, right?

 

Easily triggered?  Are you advocating all dissenting opinions are silenced just so you can feel safe?

Clearly you don't care about a study-level experience.

Unfortunately, a lot of us want a study-level experience, you know, like PMDG aircraft.

I'm sure the Xbox kiddies are drooling over their game pads though.

But, unfortunately, FS2020 is shaping up to be an absolute FAIL for anyone wanting that study-level sim experience.

Of course, Asobo could comment publicly, without ambiguity, and clear up the confusion they have themselves created with their apparent "snake-oil" promises on 3rd party support.

 

Edited April 6, 20206 yr by MatthewS

2 hours ago, MatthewS said:

 

Easily triggered?  Are you advocating all dissenting opinions are silenced just so you can feel safe?

Clearly you don't care about a study-level experience.

Unfortunately, a lot of us want a study-level experience, you know, like PMDG aircraft.

I'm sure the Xbox kiddies are drooling over their game pads though.

But, unfortunately, FS2020 is shaping up to be an absolute FAIL for anyone wanting that study-level sim experience.

Of course, Asobo could comment publicly, without ambiguity, and clear up the confusion they have themselves created with their apparent "snake-oil" promises on 3rd party support.

 

Relax, wasm is just for porting old fsx/p3d code. This has nothing to do with not being able to write new code for complex avionics. The devs are complaining because they have to rewrite their complex systems, something they don't want to do because they figure porting is faster, in other words they are lazy 😁. When pmdg comes out and say they are dropping out then we will know Microsoft is giving us a carenado type sim. I don't know how we're able to get volleyball systems in fsx and p3d and a new updated sim that MS said they are building for simmers would be dumbed down. I find that really hard to believe. 

Don't let some of these lazy devs bring fud because they don't want to get with times. 

Actually that's not true...  WASM isn't just for porting old code.  It's their standard... or what they've claimed to be their standard.   The devs are complaining because this isn't what we (or you) were told.  We were told backwards compatible.  That is not the case.  Yes, we are lazy in the sense that we'd very much like to use the signicant invesment in time, money and effort we've already made.  Why would that be considered lazy?  If we have to start up all over again from scratch, exactly WHO do you think will have to pay for that?  And how long do you think it will take?  Will it even be possible?  Jon says no and I trust him far more than I trust you... mmmmm?

MS has said a lot of things over the years... all you have to do is look at MS Flight...  and I'd hate to have been in DTG's shoes 8 months ago when MS took DTG's code as well as taking their own back... That couldn't have been fun... much as I dislike DTG... that wasn't cool... 

FUD isn't what this is about... it is about not getting what we/you were told we were getting... 

Edited April 7, 20206 yr by Milviz

8 hours ago, devgrp said:

Don't let some of these lazy devs bring fud because they don't want to get with times. 

Lazy dev ? Nope, I do not agree at all,  all the great products we have had over the years show on the contrary a lot of ingenuity and dedicated work in the addon cottage industry.

That they are motivated by their business survival in tough times is not something that I would hold against them. Even if I don’t agree much with what they say about a bleak future. That they try to raise an outcry in the public is de bonne guerre even if I don’t think that it is the best path.I call it out with a grin on my face.

7 hours ago, Milviz said:

Who do you think will have to pay for that?  And how long do you think it will take?   

Who will have to pay ? I for one and ready for it if Asobo delivers truly innovative flight modeling and air dynamics in lovely landscapes. Jon might be right but Collins avionics is not the alpha and omega of simming. And I want to pay for aircraft made for Fs20, not transported from Prepar3D. Even if it means expensive.

How long ? I don’t know but high fidelity aircraft have never been available at release of a sim, so it wouldn’t be exactly a new situation

Edited April 7, 20206 yr by domkle

13 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

For example: if you want access to the local file system, Asobo could provide an API for that inside their WASM. Or they provide a socket API so you could communicate with an outside data provider module. Or some stuff will be provided as (web-?) services. Etc. 

Unless things have been tried, tested and proven to be technologically impossible, I like to think that there always is a way.

Reasonable comment! Nice to read something level-headed from a dev. Although I can understand that emotion plays a role in that regard.

 

So this is purely specualtive, but I have a feeling that some devs like PMDG are working very close with ASOBO on developing high quality content. Having access to tools others don't. But you don't hear a word from them as they are even more tightly involved.

This might be bs, but usually I am not so far off.

1 hour ago, tweekz said:

Reasonable comment! Nice to read something level-headed from a dev. Although I can understand that emotion plays a role in that regard.

 

So this is purely specualtive, but I have a feeling that some devs like PMDG are working very close with ASOBO on developing high quality content. Having access to tools others don't. But you don't hear a word from them as they are even more tightly involved.

This might be bs, but usually I am not so far off.

Let’s just say it is rather far off

6 hours ago, devgrp said:

Relax, wasm is just for porting old fsx/p3d code. This has nothing to do with not being able to write new code for complex avionics. The devs are complaining because they have to rewrite their complex systems, something they don't want to do because they figure porting is faster, in other words they are lazy 😁. When pmdg comes out and say they are dropping out then we will know Microsoft is giving us a carenado type sim. I don't know how we're able to get volleyball systems in fsx and p3d and a new updated sim that MS said they are building for simmers would be dumbed down. I find that really hard to believe. 

Don't let some of these lazy devs bring fud because they don't want to get with times. 

 

2 hours ago, domkle said:

Lazy dev ? Nope, I do not agree at all,  all the great products we have had over the years show on the contrary a lot of ingenuity and dedicated work in the addon cottage industry.

That they are motivated by their business survival in tough times is not something that I would hold against them. Even if I don’t agree much with what they say about a bleak future. That they try to raise an outcry in the public is de bonne guerre even if I don’t think that it is the best path.I call it out with a grin on my face.

Who will have to pay ? I for one and ready for it if Asobo delivers truly innovative flight modeling and air dynamics in lovely landscapes. Jon might be right but Collins avionics is not the alpha and omega of simming. And I want to pay for aircraft made for Fs20, not transported from 3PD. Even if it means expensive.

How long ? I don’t know but high fidelity aircraft have never been available at release of a sim, so it wouldn’t be exactly a new situation

I didn’t say it would mean we can’t port old code. I pointed out that there are things in various displays that simply won’t be possible to do with the new system period. It’s like expecting developers to use the default gps map in their displays.

And the comment about devs not wanting to get with the times is rather amusing, because speed of innovation is critical to our survival. When the tools we need for innovation (namely lower level code) are removed, it’s effectively telling us that we should go die.

Edited April 7, 20206 yr by JB3DG

22 minutes ago, JB3DG said:

 

 

And the comment about devs not wanting to get with the times is rather amusing, because speed of innovation is critical to our survival. When the tools we need for innovation (namely lower level code) are removed, it’s effectively telling us that we should go die.

As Old Vic said, we are not amused. Demeaning 3PD  has unfortunately been a trend since June last that no good simmer can be comfortable with.  

2 hours ago, tweekz said:

Reasonable comment! Nice to read something level-headed from a dev. Although I can understand that emotion plays a role in that regard.

so your suggestion is devs pipe their required directX11 data and other content that a javascript sandbox isn't capable of over local web sockets into their wasm plugin?

might work, PC only, and probably take 2 or 3 years to get working at all, but sounds workable to me. Pretty sure at least one other commercial xplane dev does something similar for content that requires more than one machine.

Will you be paying for the development? Im pretty sure microsoft wont want to.

Edited April 7, 20206 yr by mSparks

11 hours ago, MatthewS said:

 

Easily triggered?  Are you advocating all dissenting opinions are silenced just so you can feel safe?

[CUT]

But, unfortunately, FS2020 is shaping up to be an absolute FAIL for anyone wanting that study-level sim experience.

Of course, Asobo could comment publicly, without ambiguity, and clear up the confusion they have themselves created with their apparent "snake-oil" promises on 3rd party support.

 

Oh, on the contrary, I welcome dissenting opinions, and they have no bearing on how safe I feel about MSFS (a lot safer than you evidently). What I object to is the tone of them.

If you want to play "pretend I am an A320 captain", I'm sure P3D will offer a lot for your concept of realism (my concept is centered around other aspects for which MSFS will be much better than P3D).

So if MSFS is a fail _for you_, I hope it will be clear without ambiguity soon. You will be certainly happier to participate in the P3D forum than here then.

Edited April 7, 20206 yr by Murmur

6 minutes ago, Murmur said:

So if MSFS is a fail _for you_, I hope it will be clear without ambiguity soon.

It's shaping up to be a fail for anyone who expects "study level" aircraft (both airliners and GA).

 

10 minutes ago, Murmur said:

You will be certainly happier to participate in the P3D forum than here then.

Ok dad.