Yeah, 8 think there will be no more street lights. Pretty sure that was tied to Vector road data.

5 minutes ago, captain420 said:

So you guys are saying that Orbx vector isn't worth it in P3D v5?

Orbx Vector will not be ported to V5 in any case.

I just spent some time flying over Tioga and Bradford countries in Northern Pennsylvania in version 5. (Just south of the NY state line). This is an area I am very familiar with from real-world flying in GA aircraft. I installed Orbx Global Base textures and OpenLCNA, which I also used in Version 4.

There is no question in my mind that the default mesh in Version 5 is higher resolution than Version 4. There are some rather subtle low hills (glacial drumlins) in a couple of valleys between Elmira, NY and Mansfield, PA that were not present at all using Version 4 default mesh. Even using the Pilot’s Ultimate mesh add-on in Version 4, the small hills appear, but still looked “wrong”. In stock V 5 mesh by contrast, the small hills are present, and shaped exactly right. There is a large mountain ridge that runs between Troy, Pennsylvania and Blossburg, PA that looks exactly like the real ridge.

The vector data in this area is very accurate in V5. There is a large high voltage transmission line that comes up through Tioga county, crosses the NY border south of Elmira, and terminates just East of Elmira. It is present in V5, as are all of the larger cell and broadcast towers on various hilltops. All of the main rural roads in the two Pennsylvania counties are present and accounted for, as are several prominent ponds. 

All of these features look as good (or better) than they did in Orbx Vector, with the added advantage that there are should be no airports on “plateaus” or in “ditches”, which was often a side effect of the old Vector add-on. 
 

I have much more aerial exploring to do over territory I am familiar with, but my first impression is very positive. Certainly no need for Orbx Vector (and good riddance), and at the moment, I see no need for add-on mesh - at least not in this particular area.

Obviously ortho scenery will be even more accurate in any given area, (just as it is any sim), but for strict landclass based scenery, V5 is a substantial improvement over V4, even using the same Orbx global textures and OpenLC.

2 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Orbx Vector will not be ported to V5 in any case.

I just spent some time flying over Tioga and Bradford countries in Northern Pennsylvania in version 5. (Just south of the NY state line). This is an area I am very familiar with from real-world flying in GA aircraft. I installed Orbx Global Base textures and OpenLCNA, which I also used in Version 4.

There is no question in my mind that the default mesh in Version 5 is higher resolution than Version 4. There are some rather subtle low hills (glacial drumlins) in a couple of valleys between Elmira, NY and Mansfield, PA that were not present at all using Version 4 default mesh. Even using the Pilot’s Ultimate mesh add-on in Version 4, the small hills appear, but still looked “wrong”. In stock V 5 mesh by contrast, the small hills are present, and shaped exactly right. There is a large mountain ridge that runs between Troy, Pennsylvania and Blossburg, PA that looks exactly like the real ridge.

The vector data in this area is very accurate in V5. There is a large high voltage transmission line that comes up through Tioga county, crosses the NY border south of Elmira, and terminates just East of Elmira. It is present in V5, as are all of the larger cell and broadcast towers on various hilltops. All of the main rural roads in the two Pennsylvania counties are present and accounted for, as are several prominent ponds. 

All of these features look as good (or better) than they did in Orbx Vector, with the added advantage that there are should be no airports on “plateaus” or in “ditches”, which was often a side effect of the old Vector add-on. 
 

I have much more aerial exploring to do over territory I am familiar with, but my first impression is very positive. Certainly no need for Orbx Vector (and good riddance), and at the moment, I see no need for add-on mesh - at least not in this particular area.

Obviously ortho scenery will be even more accurate in any given area, (just as it is any sim), but for strict landclass based scenery, V5 is a substantial improvement over V4, even using the same Orbx global textures and OpenLC.

Very happy to hear this! Thanks for contributing. I think this probably means that at least in North America I might be able to get rid of addon mesh. Now I still wonder about South America. That was always a nightmare in v4 and below...

also, I’d somebody can verify whether the lack of vector also gets rid of the 3D streetlights, or whether this might still be part of another orbx global package. The product page of global base actually does seem to suggest that 3d streetlights are part of it, but I doubt that this also covers vector roads.

frnakly, I will miss that feature of vector... it made a huge difference for my night environment. Perhaps orbx can be convinced to release this vector feature as a separate product in v5?

That is really good to know. The less add-ons I have to deal with, the better! Having too many add-ons to deal with and then having to troubleshoot when something goes wrong is a nightmare. 

Btw, refresh my mind, but what is AEC again?

1 minute ago, captain420 said:

That is really good to know. The less add-ons I have to deal with, the better! Having too many add-ons to deal with and then having to troubleshoot when something goes wrong is a nightmare. 

Btw, refresh my mind, but what is AEC again?

“Airport Elevation Corrections”. They were supposed to fix the elevation of stock airport to match high resolution mesh addons. Except  very often they actually ended up causing more problems when used together with other third party airport scenery products. I doubt anybody will miss this feature....

Mesh: P3D V5 comes with "some Mesh better than nothing".

Taking off from "Serra Talhada" in the northeast of Brasil with P3D v4 and without any 3rd party Mesh doesn't show ANY heights. (heading 60°)
Taking off from the same airport usign P3D V5 shows at least some characteristic mountains, but in fact the Pilots Mesh was way better.

There are more roads in P3D V5 in that rural region, than Vector showed before. I have to work there 2-3 times per year since 15 years, so I really know each road there... Thats a big plus of P3D V5.

But some bridges and tunnels of VECTOR don't exist anymore, like I saw in Berlin.

And: GOBD, the DAKAR Airport still doesn't exist in P3D V5 🙂 For those who might want to fly the IVAO 20Years Tour...

Ralf

1 minute ago, Benjamin J said:

Very happy to hear this! Thanks for contributing. I think this probably means that at least in North America I might be able to get rid of addon mesh. Now I still wonder about South America. That was always a nightmare in v4 and below...

also, I’d somebody can verify whether the lack of vector also gets rid of the 3D streetlights, or whether this might still be part of another orbx global package. The product page of global base actually does seem to suggest that 3d streetlights are part of it, but I doubt that this also covers vector roads.

frnakly, I will miss that feature of vector... it made a huge difference for my night environment. Perhaps orbx can be convinced to release this vector feature as a separate product in v5?

I’ll set the sim to night time and fly between KELM and KBGM, following Interstate 86 to check the street lighting. Good opportunity to see how the HDR airport and aircraft lighting looks too. I’m using the stock Mooney Bravo, since I’m familiar with it, and I am waiting for “official” V5 installers for my favorite add-on GA and airliners

ORBX Vector is excellent for smoothing the edges of rivers (removing long stretch edges). I wonder if this has been upgraded in P3Dv5 ? if not I will miss this Vector feature.

Mike

Yes, there are streetlights. These images were taken flying between Elmira and Binghamton NY at 3500 feet The first shot shows Interstate 86 around the small village of Nichols, NY. The second is the village of Owego. Neither has a very high street density in r/w.

I assume the lights are embedded in the default P3D V5 vector data. Sorry they are not larger - the image host I used shrinks them...

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 20206 yr by JRBarrett

7 hours ago, pmb said:

Vector has been ORBX' stepchild over (as they say) 10 versions. I suspect they are glad to see a chance to get rid of it. I rarely used it as I fly mostly within ORBX regions anyway.

It remains to be shown if the AEC corrections will be missed, but perhaps (hopefully) these will no longer be required in view of better mesh and sloped runways.

Kind regards, Michael

 

Vector

That Orbx is glad to get rid of it I am sure. Enough said on that.

I am not. I fly extensively in places where Vector brings more accurate coastlines, better rivers, roads, water bodies etc. I like Vector and chose it over UTX because of the limited geographical scope of the latter. It is one of the great addons of the FS history. I have really never understood why some people don’t like it. 

I am very suspicious that v5 is better than Vector for my use. Ben at Orbx says   « The data within in Prepar3D v5 is much newer and complete and makes Global VECTOR less relevant ». 

Newer ? I do not expect less, that LM gives us yet again early 2000’s data. Complete compared to what  ? Vector or V4 ? The key words actually are « less relevant » which also means still relevant...

Mesh

Again, I doubt that the default mesh will be as good as Pilots (I’ve the same suspicion for FS20 BTW). Will adding a better mesh still bring plateaus or troughs ? Are sloped runways a terrain tool that can be manipulated anywhere or just manmade runways for few iconic airports ? 

 

 

8 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

Yes, there are streetlights. These images were taken flying between Elmira and Binghamton NY at 3500 feet The first shot shows Interstate 86 around the small village of Nichols, NY. The second is the village of Owego. Neither has a very high street density in r/w.

I assume the lights are embedded in the default P3D V5 vector data. Sorry they are not larger - the image host I used shrinks them...

 

 

 

Wonderful! It could also be Global BASE, though. I remember that the inclusion of 3D lights was listed as a feature. I thought it might only relate the LC textures themselves, but looks like that is not the case. Thanks for this test!

 

6 hours ago, domkle said:

Vector

That Orbx is glad to get rid of it I am sure. Enough said on that.

I am not. I fly extensively in places where Vector brings more accurate coastlines, better rivers, roads, water bodies etc. I like Vector and chose it over UTX because of the limited geographical scope of the latter. It is one of the great addons of the FS history. I have really never understood why some people don’t like it. 

I am very suspicious that v5 is better than Vector for my use. Ben at Orbx says   « The data within in Prepar3D v5 is much newer and complete and makes Global VECTOR less relevant ». 

Newer ? I do not expect less, that LM gives us yet again early 2000’s data. Complete compared to what  ? Vector or V4 ? The key words actually are « less relevant » which also means still relevant...

Mesh

Again, I doubt that the default mesh will be as good as Pilots (I’ve the same suspicion for FS20 BTW). Will adding a better mesh still bring plateaus or troughs ? Are sloped runways a terrain tool that can be manipulated anywhere or just manmade runways for few iconic airports ? 

I don't understand your suspicion. Ben's post on vector was very clear. He compares Vector with v5, literally saying v5's data is newer and more complete than Vector's. If what you say would be true, Vector's data would be as outdated as FSX's, which it clearly wasn't at the time. So not sure what is there to be suspicious about...? As an aside, Ben's statement is being confirmed by others, even in this very thread (see @JRBarrett's posts). 

However, the resolution of v5's Vector data is probably highest in North America and Europe. It has always been like that. And quite frankly, vector had some gaping holes as well. I remember Costa Rica and Iran, to name two countries, which still had default coast lines. However, given that v5's new data was world wide, I'm hopeful that other areas will have seen at least basic enhancements as well.

With regards to mesh, it seems to be the same story: North America and Europe seem to have good resolution mesh, but other parts of the world are a little lackluster. What this means is that you will be recommended to  use third-party mesh addons, but you might be able to skip on their enhancements for North America and Europe. From what I've read, South America definitely still needs a third party mesh enhancement... Which is kind of disappointing.

7 minutes ago, Benjamin J said:

Wonderful! It could also be Global BASE, though. I remember that the inclusion of 3D lights was listed as a feature. I thought it might only relate the LC textures themselves, but looks like that is not the case. Thanks for this test!

 

I don't understand your suspicion. Ben's post on vector was very clear. He compares Vector with v5, literally saying v5's data is newer and more complete than Vector's. If what you say would be true, Vector's data would be as outdated as FSX's, which it clearly wasn't at the time. So not sure what is there to be suspicious about...? As an aside, Ben's statement is being confirmed by others, even in this very thread (see @JRBarrett's posts). 

However, the resolution of v5's Vector data is probably highest in North America and Europe. It has always been like that. And quite frankly, vector had some gaping holes as well. I remember Costa Rica and Iran, to name two countries, which still had default coast lines. However, given that v5's new data was world wide, I'm hopeful that other areas will have seen at least basic enhancements as well.

With regards to mesh, it seems to be the same story: North America and Europe seem to have good resolution mesh, but other parts of the world are a little lackluster. What this means is that you will be recommended to  use third-party mesh addons, but you might be able to skip on their enhancements for North America and Europe. From what I've read, South America definitely still needs a third party mesh enhancement... Which is kind of disappointing.

My dear you obviously do not understand what I said (certainly my fault) as I am afraid as I don’t understand exactly what are your points. To continue the conversation would be tiresome for both of us.

 

 

Just now, domkle said:

My dear you obviously do not understand what I said (certainly my fault) as I am afraid as I don’t understand exactly what are your points. To continue the conversation would be tiresome for both of us.

My dear...? I think I understood them perfectly well - I just disagree with your reasons to be 'suspicious'. I also don't think that clarifications would be tiresome, unless you don't want to get an answer to you concerns?

You say that you don't believe v5's data is better than Vector's, correct? And you are suspicious about Ben's post (which you referenced) for a variety of reasons, correct? My point is simple: His post was very clear. He states that v5 has newer data than Vector does, and posts here at Avsim seem to confirm both v5's data accuracy as well as higher resolution, at least for North America.

With regards to mesh, you say you don't believe that that quality is better either, correct? My point, in response, was that North America and Europe appear to have better mesh than v4, but other areas seem to be similar overall, based on posts here at Avsim.

Please let me know how I didn't understand your points, and how my points were unclear to you. And if you still think I didn't understand, perhaps you can just re-explain politely?

7 hours ago, domkle said:

I am very suspicious that v5 is better than Vector for my use. Ben at Orbx says   « The data within in Prepar3D v5 is much newer and complete and makes Global VECTOR less relevant ». 

Newer ? I do not expect less, that LM gives us yet again early 2000’s data.

I have only checked my own local area so far, but the default vector data includes several cell phone towers and two broadcast towers that were only built within the last 5 years, so the data source must be relatively recent. Obviously that may not be the case everywhere.

In terms of water bodies, the ponds in Bradford county of northern Pennsylvania that I am familiar with from actual flights I have done over the area, are correctly placed, and have clean, well-defined rounded edges.

Likewise the depiction of the Finger Lakes just north of here, and the Chemung river that passes through my local area. Both look as good as they did using Orbx Vector - the shape of the river is actually better in native P3D V5 that it was in P3D V4 with Orbx Vector.
 

On the other hand, another user pointed out that a large lake to the west of KEYE airport in Indianapolis is completely missing in V5, even though it has always been depicted in every FS version going back to FS5, so there are obviously some scenery errors in the new P3D, which will hopefully be corrected as users bring them to LM’s attention.

LM has said that tunnels and long roadway underpasses that Orbx Vector depicted well are not found in the default vector data, so that is a point in Orbx’s favor.

I used Orbx Vector in FSX and all versions of P3D up until V5, and it brought a lot to the table, but it came with many terrain anomalies affecting the underlying mesh, and especially airport elevations.

I plan to do a flight today from NYC south along the Atlantic beaches of New Jersey to see how the coastline is depicted in V5. There are many barrier islands and inlets there. I link my sim to the moving map of ForeFlight on my iPad, which can be set to show aerial and satellite imagery, so I can compare what I see “out the window”, to actual photo imagery of wherever I am flying.

3 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

I plan to do a flight today from NYC south along the Atlantic beaches of New Jersey to see how the coastline is depicted in V5. There are many barrier islands and inlets there. I link my sim to the moving map of ForeFlight on my iPad, which can be set to show aerial and satellite imagery, so I can compare what I see “out the window”, to actual photo imagery of wherever I am flying.

Excellent, thank you for your efforts! Looking forward to hear back!