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Quasimodo

How does this look at 24hz

24hz video  

5 members have voted

  1. 1. how does this Video look on your Display at 24hz

    • Smooth and fluid
      3
    • Smooth but with ghosting
      2


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Posted (edited)

If you display can do 24hz please set it to 24hz and watch thing video and let me know how it looked.

Its 4K so it might take a while to be available in 4K

 

Edited by Quasimodo

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I can't do 24hz but what a nice video! Quality of the image is excellent. Thanks for sharing. JJ


Jean-Jacques

CYND, Gatineau-Ottawa Executive Airport, Gatineau, Quebec, Canada

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24 FPS will always look terrible but whatever lifts your wings, I guess.

  • Like 2

-Alex 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Chapstick said:

24 FPS will always look terrible

I guess on your Display it will but not on all displays. Mine for example!😁 On mine apart form some unrelated to refresh rate stutters its perfectly smooth and fluid. I wanted to determine who see's excessive ghosting and who doesn't. For anyone who doesn't maybe they can list there display make and model. I'm inclined to think that those using HDTVs or 4K TV's might have a better experience with this than those using PC monitors. Since Many TV's apparently  have a smoothing filter for 24hz. My display is a 55" Samsung NU6900. With the refresh rate set to 24hz in NCP and Game mode off in the TV settings this video plays back perfectly smoothly and fluidly on the screen. Except when the the panning rate is too fast. Then micro stutters ensue. I wanted to determine based on poll results if it was worth posting 4K videos at 24fps to my Youtube channel

Edited by Quasimodo

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Posted (edited)

24 fps has been around for a long time and is still around: 

https://www.redsharknews.com/technology-computing/item/3881-why-24-frames-per-second-is-still-the-gold-standard-for-film

so long as one manages motion rate of the camera, it's still very viable FPS ... if one tends to spin one's view/head around a lot like a hyper-active puppy, then not so much, they'll need 60 FPS or even 120 FPS ... and since many 3D shooters require exactly that (the puppy head swivel) then FPS becomes more important to them, but for someone flying a commercial jet then 24 FPS is sufficient.

So in short, your FPS requirement depends on how you fly and what you fly.

Cheers, Rob.

 

Edited by Rob_Ainscough
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You can not compare 24 fps in a simulator with 24 fps in film. Film is creating a distinct look using a shutter speed doubling the frame rate to create motion blur. We don't have that in the flight sim world, which makes the images look more "flickery".

I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, since if you like it or not is very subjective, but you can't compare it. That's also why motion has a much bigger effect that some people can tolerate less than others.

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7 minutes ago, JensNJ66 said:

but you can't compare it

Why not, virtual camera or real camera ... they're operating at 24 fps captures.  In both sim and real world the motion can be "managed" so as to make it tolerable and in some cases "artistic".  It's really about motion management.

Cheers, Rob.

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5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

It's really about motion management.

So for motion management I am using TrackiR5 smoothing set to 50 with precision tracking. That's not enough! I am also using EZCA3 addition motion smoothing set to about 700. It goes higher than that but I really becomes aware of the the camera lagging behind my head movement above that. The trick is to make slower head movement.

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I'm not sure the poll makes sense?  "Ghosting" is when a monitor's pixel rate isn't sufficient, a lower refresh rate would actually reduce the potential for ghosting.

With low refresh rates, one is missing the images that would be rendered based on a motion rate.  For example if one moves the camera from front view (0 degree) to right view (90 degree) in 10 seconds, the rate of motion is low so it would look the same at 24 FPS as it would at 60 FPS.  However, if one moves the camera from front view (0 degree) to right view (90 degree) in 1 second, the rate of motion is high so it would look better at 60 FPS than 24 FPS.

Cheers, Rob.

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1 minute ago, Quasimodo said:

The trick is to make slower head movement.

Yes, that's motion management.

Cheers, Rob.

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Posted (edited)

Some TV's apparently have filters that smooth out ghosting. I can watch that video on the Samsung NU6900 and unless I move my head to fast the image stays smooth and fluid but If i watch it on the much older Samsung 1080p TV in the living room set to 24hz its does look terrible.

But also leads me to another question about traffic refresh rate in FSX/P3D because one thing I noticed is that AI traffic in general seems to be to my eye on my display more fluid at 24hz/fps than it does at 30hz/fps. Which makes me wonder are the positions of AI traffic updated 24 times per second by the sim all the time no mater what the frame rate?

Edited by Quasimodo

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21 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Why not, virtual camera or real camera ... they're operating at 24 fps captures.  In both sim and real world the motion can be "managed" so as to make it tolerable and in some cases "artistic".  It's really about motion management.

Cheers, Rob.

The shutter speed is different. If you look at 24fps films where the shutter was not open for half of the frame length then it looks different than if it's done properly. That's why a lot of cell phone videos don't look as good, even if they're taken at 24fps. There are just as many heated discussions in the cinema world about if 24 fps looks better/good/good enough as there are here.

As an example: 30fps means each frame will stay on the screen for 0.03s. If there is any motion then the eye would typically make the moving part blurry. In computer generated images that is not the case. You see the image of the object at a very specific point in time, unless the video engine emulates the motion blur by creating multiple images at different points during those 0.03s and mixing them together. So one pixel that would have moved during those 0.03s would appear more as a line. Of course, that's not applicable here, because if the engine could create 4 frames within 0.03s we would not have this discussion.

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i've tried 24 on my setup (In signature.  But a 43" 4K TV).  I didn't like it.  Panning around the cockpit with chaseplane was not as desirable as I found locking to 30.  


9700k | Maximus XI Hero| 32gb DDR4 3000 | 1080Ti 11GB | 1tb EVO Plus 970 and 500GB M2+3TB HDD | 43" Samsung X60R 4k and 2  22" monitors | Corsair RM1000x |  240MM AIO.| MFG Crosswind | T16000M Stick | Saitek Throttle Quad | Skalarki MCDU and FCU | Saitek Radio Panel

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In my laptop display (60 Hz) it looked choppy at full screen. After casting to my Samsung 32"TV (using Chromecast), it looked smoother. I don't know why...


Best regards,
Luis Hernández 20px-Flag_of_Colombia.svg.png20px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png

My rig: ASUS TUF FX504GD (Intel i5 8300H @ 2.8-4.0 GHz, 8 GB DDR4-2666 RAM, Nvidia GTX 1050, 256 GB M.2 SSD+256 GB 1 TB SATA III SSD as storage, Windows 10 Home)

Saitek X-52 as primary controller. Xbox 360 wired and eDimensional G-Pad Pro wired controllers as standby/travel.

Running FSX-SE as my primary sim, finally, 13 years after FSX's release. Also running FS9 and XP11 Vulkan. What do I do with 3 sims now?

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I like being able to do cool stuff like this: https://streamable.com/xl6bin. So I can't imagine being forced to lock my FPS so low that I can't make rapid head movements. Even when flying airliners I want to be able to keep my head on a swivel for quick interactions with the overhead panel, autopilot, etc. 


-Alex 

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