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So I had a play with the latest Bing 3D maps to find specific areas of airports in China that are destinations from my airport

I was very disappointed to see Chongqing (Jiangbei) International New layout and new terminal 3 still under construction in the Bing images.

under Google maps it is shown fully complete along with the extra two runways.

In real life this terminal and runways have been operational since 2017 and I have flown in and out of there at least 3 times..

The point is, the images shown on Bing are at least 7 to 12 years out of date.

I am guessing MS2020 will reflect this out of date imaging..  For non US default airports.

While I accept that nobody probably cares too much about this.. And eventually some 3rd party may develop a more up to date image.. I would have personally liked more recent mapping.. As this will reflect in buildings  and city layout too.. Chongqing and its immediate environs encompass 32 million souls..

I have no proof of course this will be the case as I am not an Alpha nor Beta tester..

Just an observation.. Any feedback welcome

Ray

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Some images are 7-10 years out of date. Some aren't.

People keep making this complaint, but there's nothing that can be done about it. It's better than having a 15 year out of date airport database like FSX. They based things on orthos because that's the best source of data they could get. If you are looking in totalitarian states like China, you are probably gonna find even more issues than the US and EU. It is what it is. Asobo can only work with that they have.

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Posted (edited)

Satellite imagery is still literally infinite times better than generic landclass.  At least for me, it will be very easy to ignore the imperfections such as blocky bridges, vehicles driving out of alignment with roads, and satellite imagery being 7 years old.  Asobo would need to embed a very easy to use building/geology sculptor for its user base to upload corrections for.

Edited by Heli
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15 minutes ago, ray hughes said:

The point is, the images shown on Bing are at least 7 to 12 years out of date.

This certainly isn't true in general. We've an extended building area not far from our house which was launched in the last year. I was quite surprized to find it in Bing Maps (and in MSFS, if I am allowed to say this).

Kind regards, Michael

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Thanks for your quick response. I assume from your response you may have had Alpha access.?

As for access to land information.. I understand your perceptions but politics aside , Google maps has some pretty up to date imaging.

Yes, Bing is not Google, and yes we will have to live with what we are given.. I understand fully.. As the NDA may prevent you from answering directly or specifically, I guess I will just have to wait and see

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ray hughes said:

As for access to land information.. I understand your perceptions but politics aside , Google maps has some pretty up to date imaging

A tradeoff is that the photogrammetry in Bing Maps is better than Google.  There are distortions in Google's photogrammetry. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ray hughes said:

Thanks for your quick response. I assume from your response you may have had Alpha access.?

As for access to land information.. I understand your perceptions but politics aside , Google maps has some pretty up to date imaging.

Yes, Bing is not Google, and yes we will have to live with what we are given.. I understand fully.. As the NDA may prevent you from answering directly or specifically, I guess I will just have to wait and see

I don't think calling China what they are is me getting political.

Regardless, Bing updates their imagery for whatever suits their needs. Google may have customers that need images of China, Bing may not. It's impossible to know their reasoning. But you can generally expect imagery in closed dictatorships and parts of the world with less commerce to have worse imagery. North Korea is another example. I haven't tested everywhere across the globe, but you don't need to be in the alpha to see. Just use the bing maps tool and check out different spots you are curious of. That's the data Asobo uses, for better or worse.

Edited by bonchie
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2 minutes ago, ray hughes said:

Yes, Bing is not Google, and yes we will have to live with what we are given.. I understand fully.. As the NDA may prevent you from answering directly or specifically, I guess I will just have to wait and see

Unfortunately I can't. I hope myself the NDA would be lifted earlier than August 18th. Let's see.

Anyway, discussion of Google doesn't make sense as MSFS is Bing based and this isn't going to change.

Kind regards, Michael


Prepar3d Professional v4+5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, pmb said:

This certainly isn't true in general. We've an extended building area not far from our house which was launched in the last year. I was quite surprized to find it in Bing Maps (and in MSFS, if I am allowed to say this).

Kind regards, Michael

Michael, my feeling is that the USA and EU will have the more current data because that is what Bing 3D maps also shows.

As an aviation employee, pilot and enthusiastic traveller throughout Oceania, Asia and the Far East, this is the region that excites me the most, and is the fastest and most varied growing region in the world today...

Truthfully Asobo had to use Bing maps as this is a ms product.. But preferably would have loved to have seen Google maps as they are more. Representative

Edited by ray hughes
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Heli said:

A tradeoff is that the photogrammetry in Bing Maps is better than Google.  There are distortions in Google's photogrammetry. 

I didn't know that! Thanks for the info!

Edited by ray hughes

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6 minutes ago, bonchie said:

I don't think calling China what they are is me getting political.

Regardless, Bing updates their imagery for whatever suits their needs. Google may have customers that need images of China, Bing may not. It's impossible to know their reasoning. But you can generally expect imagery in closed dictatorships and parts of the world with less commerce to have worse imagery. North Korea is another example. I haven't tested everywhere across the globe, but you don't need to be in the alpha to see. Just use the bing maps tool and check out different spots you are curious of. That's the data Asobo uses, for better or worse.

Okay.. Thank you, I have been using the Bing 3D Maps to discover .. And hence this topic starter.. A lament if you will. Nothing is perfect and I will just have to accept what is..

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Oh.. And I was not aware of the raging debate on the Leaks subject by the way.. I have just read through that series of posts on North Korea and the images. It was just unfortunate timing on my part to raise this subject so soon after another...

I think though, given MS2020 will be launched within a month, that our expectations should be honestly reflected by Microsoft in their marketing of this product.. A statement along the lines " some regions will be less detailed due the age of mapping data"... Would go a long way to avoid over hyped expectations....

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Do not expect too much detail from China giving the Chinese govt extremely restrict to data access or availability, even in some normal circumstances, they would consider those to be sensitive and secretly held in fact nothing really matters. So it is why there are far less availability of data from China despite now is has #2 market in the aviation. 

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I don't know.. A lot of talk about restrictions and aging data.. Let's face it.. In order for foreign airlines to fly into controlled airspace and land at Chinese airports, data and mapping is published and available as a matter of course.. Not secretive. True some areas of national security will be pixilated .. But honestly, I have seen hi res images of the flooding in South Western China from as recent as Last week.. The only thing I have not seen in detail is North Korea..

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26 minutes ago, ray hughes said:

I don't know.. A lot of talk about restrictions and aging data.. Let's face it.. In order for foreign airlines to fly into controlled airspace and land at Chinese airports, data and mapping is published and available as a matter of course.. Not secretive. True some areas of national security will be pixilated .. But honestly, I have seen hi res images of the flooding in South Western China from as recent as Last week.. The only thing I have not seen in detail is North Korea..

I'm not sure what you mean with 'foreign airlines'. I assume, that airlines which are cleared and approved for landing and operating in China, will get up-to-date information, of course. But there's a big difference, between public maps, which is utilized by Bing/Google and maps, which are handed to select instances.

I'm also quite sure, that the american military have more up-to-date satellite imagery of China - but those are not made public.

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