Imagine where MSFS will be in 3 years?

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

3 hours ago, ADamiani said:

Well allow me to dissent. I'd rather say it's like buying your first self-driving car only to discover that from time to time you are locked out and the AI won't open the door. Another time it's the trunk. Then one day the window will not roll down. A few days later the thing won't go into reverse, so you have to take a cab. One afternoon, it suddenly crashes into a wall, because of some bug in the A.I. Not to mention the problem with the engine: sometimes it inexplicably hiccups, stutters. Oh and the air conditioner is a bit erratic: it decides the temperature and you have no say in it, like that one time with 40 degrees C outside and 45 inside.

Now it's more like that.

A.

 

If that is the case then it just sounds like the sentient self driving car doesn't like you or feel you're worthy to be driven.  I'm sure your model-T still works tho.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

On 4/11/2021 at 9:17 PM, a321 said:

Errr no. The default avionics work so well in Xplane that a lot of add-on aircraft use them so please stop the lies now and immediately. People like you just throw out stupid statements and spread garbage. 

Xplane out of the box you can fly IFR realistically. You can't in msfs without mods and often you can't at all. That's a fact! No need to uninstall anything, stop being a shill for bad decisions, and short comings.

That’s true. And many of us have been flying over orthoscenery, for me its been since XP9, where so much freeware ortho was available. MSFS’s use of ortho is convenient (in some ways), but it’s only novel to those who haven’t been paying attention to flight simming for the past decade.

MSFS still falls down when it comes to the “simulation” part of flight simulation. The graphics engine is very pretty, but it’s buggy and performs poorly by 2021 standards. After 6 months, i still find MSFS fun to play with but i can’t imagine using it for serious GA aviation, or for flying some heavy iron accross the pond.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:54 AM, abrams_tank said:

 

 

 

Well Abrams, you are perhaps the sim’s strongest cheerleader, so let’s see how your predictions panned out. 🙂

“I think in the next 6 months, Asobo will iron out a lot of the more annoying bugs “

- ha, no. That didn’t happen. But they did invent some new bugs!

“and there will probably be an optimization patch or two with it. ‘

- again, wrong. They soemhow managed to make performance worse with most of their patches. 

“AMD and NVidia will also have a chance to release additional driver updates that may optimize the game further.  Bing Maps will also get better data over the next 3 years so the places we fly over will be more accurate.”

- not likely to be significant. I was using Bing maps to make ortho for p3d v3, and it used to be awesome quality in europe. Quality has actually got FAR worse with time, same case with some of the US. At any rate, did bing get any better in the 6 months since you wrote this, even a little bit. Nope.

“But most importantly, 3rd parties will have a wealth of planes and sceneries in 3 years time, and the community will also release a bunch of great stuff as well (ie. liveries are starting to be released by the community).”

Well, you got your liveries. But definitely not a wealth of,planes so far, you did give that one a 3-year time frame so its always possible you may be right.

“ But I can't wait to see what this sim becomes over the next 3 years.”

Sure, maybe the next 2 1/2 years will fare well, but the 6 months since you posted have been a surprisingly underwhelming effort by Asobo.

[abrams_tank 7,423]

29 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Well Abrams, you are perhaps the sim’s strongest cheerleader, so let’s see how your predictions panned out. 🙂

“I think in the next 6 months, Asobo will iron out a lot of the more annoying bugs “

- ha, no. That didn’t happen. But they did invent some new bugs!

“and there will probably be an optimization patch or two with it. ‘

- again, wrong. They soemhow managed to make performance worse with most of their patches. 

“AMD and NVidia will also have a chance to release additional driver updates that may optimize the game further.  Bing Maps will also get better data over the next 3 years so the places we fly over will be more accurate.”

- not likely to be significant. I was using Bing maps to make ortho for p3d v3, and it used to be awesome quality in europe. Quality has actually got FAR worse with time, same case with some of the US. At any rate, did bing get any better in the 6 months since you wrote this, even a little bit. Nope.

“But most importantly, 3rd parties will have a wealth of planes and sceneries in 3 years time, and the community will also release a bunch of great stuff as well (ie. liveries are starting to be released by the community).”

Well, you got your liveries. But definitely not a wealth of,planes so far, you did give that one a 3-year time frame so its always possible you may be right.

“ But I can't wait to see what this sim becomes over the next 3 years.”

Sure, maybe the next 2 1/2 years will fare well, but the 6 months since you posted have been a surprisingly underwhelming effort by Asobo.

MSFS runs better now than the day 1 release for me.  I was getting low 20 FPS for the A320 on the day 1 release.  At the same location, I now get mid 30 FPS at the same location today.  So you are wrong.

CTDs have also been reduced for me since the day 1 release. You are also wrong there!

Bing maps has gotten more data and there is more photogrammetry for some cities across the world.  Then there is the US, Japan, and UK world update with another update for Western Europe coming.

And you have to download ortho data from Bing and then process that data and store it on your hard drive so you can get half decent scenery that still looks worse than MSFS? I don’t have to store any of that data on my hard drive on MSFS and it’s streamed to me in real time!

And the add ons for MSFS is very healthy.  Just go to flightsim.to and there are all sorts of free add ons for it, not to mention many paid add ons as well.

And one more thing for you.  I hope you know that 3rd parties are shifting their resources from P3D to MSFS, or abandoning P3D altogether.  And who knows how long they will keep producing products for XPlane for.  It’s information we have obtained from Aerosoft, other 3rd party developers, and Microsoft/Asobo themselves (Aerosoft have said the revenue dried up for new P3D products).  P3D is likely going to become obsolete for 3rd party developers and possibly XPlane may follow after that.  MSFS is the future whether you like it or not.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by abrams_tank

[OzWhitey 3,353]

12 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

MSFS runs better now than the day 1 release for me.  I was getting low 20 FPS for the A320 on the day 1 release.  At the same location, I now get mid 30 FPS at the same location today.  So you are wrong.

Bing maps has gotten more data and there is more photogrammetry for some cities across the world.  Then there is the US, Japan, and UK world update with another update for Western Europe coming.

And the add ons for MSFS is very healthy.  Just go to flightsim.to and there are all sorts of free add ons for it, not to mention many paid add ons as well.

And one more thing for you.  I hope you know that 3rd parties are shifting their resources from P3D to MSFS, or abandoning P3D altogether.  And who knows how long they will keep producing products for XPlane for.  It’s information we have obtained from Aerosoft, other 3rd party developers, and Microsoft/Asobo themselves (Aerosoft have said the revenue dried up for new P3D products).  P3D is likely going to become obsolete for 3rd party developers and possibly XPlane may follow after that.  MSFS is the future whether you like it or not.

 

As i said, you’re the sim’s #1 cheerleader. 😉

No, developers are not all leaving x-plane and p3d, and they show no signs of becoming obsolete. In fact, after the initial rush of enthusiasm many have returned to the trad sims which provide a deeper, if uglier, experience.

Aerosoft’s sales dried up primarily because they have had a bad attitude to p3d for far too long and failed to deliver compelling products, so many consumers - myself included - avoid buying from them if at all possible.

I am very aware of the freeware at flightsim.to, and generally impressed by the MSFS freeware community, something that x-plane has in spades but p3d does not.

re: “bing maps has gotten more data” - what makes you think that the orthoimagery improved? As i mentioned, bing maps peaked about 2015, that’s where my best x-plane and p3d bing ortho comes from and i’d love to be able to travel back i  time and get more of what they had back then (alps, anywhere in europe, most us states).

Anyway, i just posted as i saw that the thread was 6 months old, and you’d made specific predictioms for what you thought would happen in that time frame. I think most users would opine that you were wrong about the success of patches and performance fixes.

i’m actually not overly negative about the sim, and i really do enjoy flying it from time to time as my secondary platform. It does some things well, but id still say that asobo really need to pick up their game.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by OzWhitey

[abrams_tank 7,423]

56 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

As i said, you’re the sim’s #1 cheerleader.

No, developers are not all leaving x-plane and p3d, and they show no signs of becoming obsolete. In fact, after the initial rush of enthusiasm many have returned to the trad sims which provide a deeper, if uglier, experience.

Aerosoft’s sales dried up primarily because they have had a bad attitude to p3d for far too long and failed to deliver compelling products, so many consumers - myself included - avoid buying from them if at all possible.

I am very aware of the freeware at flightsim.to, and generally impressed by the MSFS freeware community, something that x-plane has in spades but p3d does not.

re: “bing maps has gotten more data” - what makes you think that the orthoimagery improved? As i mentioned, bing maps peaked about 2015, that’s where my best x-plane and p3d bing ortho comes from and i’d love to be able to travel back i  time and get more of what they had back then (alps, anywhere in europe, most us states).

Anyway, i just posted as i saw that the thread was 6 months old, and you’d made specific predictioms for what you thought would happen in that time frame. I think most users would opine that you were wrong about the success of patches and performance fixes.

i’m actually not overly negative about the sim, and i really do enjoy flying it from time to time as my secondary platform. It does some things well, but id still say that asobo really need to pick up their game.

 

There is more photogrammetry for more cities now.  If you had been paying attention to the patches, more photogrammetry was added for various cities,

Aerosoft said their sales dried up for P3D.  And 3rd party developers are shifting more resources to MSFS - this is something new Microsoft/Asobo said in one of the weekly updates.  With the larger player base for MSFS, and with MSFS coming out for XBox which will grow the player base even more, coupled with an aging simulation platform that is P3D, it’s no surprise that 3rd party developers are leaving P3D for MSFS.  Companies go where the $$$ is and the $$$ is in MSFS right now.

And also something you don’t know, I am on record for saying that I hope X-Plane and P3D up their game so that we as consumers have more choices and better choices to choose from.  Competition benefits all of us consumers.

But I also see XPlane and P3D sat on their butt the last decade, not really pushing the envelope on new technology.  The improvements for both over the last decade have been very marginal and nothing ground breaking.  How shall we say it ... they got complacent.  Then Microsoft/Asobo walked in, showed XPlane and P3D what can be done with the latest graphics technology, satellite and photogrammetry data, to bring flight simulation up to the 2020s.  And if XPlane and P3D don’t catch up, both will become obsolete platforms for 3rd party developers.

I am glad MSFS brought flight simulation to the 2020s.  And they did it at the price of $60 USD!  Because at the rate of improvement for XPlane and P3D, we would be stuck with a decade olds technology for years to come (the fact that you have to manually download Bing ortho, process it, and then store it on your hard drive just to give you half decent looking scenery is so lame - it’s an example of where we would still be if MSFS hadn’t come). And I am also glad that I don’t have to fork out hundreds to thousands of dollars to make my flight simulator look good.  It’s $60 USD.  That is another win for us as consumers.

Edited April 13, 2021 by abrams_tank

[OSM 683]

3 hours ago, airservices said:

Who is making that PC6 ?

FlightSimGames (FSG)

[airservices 133]

34 minutes ago, OSM said:

FlightSimGames (FSG)

Thanks for that I would love that in MSFS 👍 when do you think this will be released ?

Edited April 13, 2021 by airservices

[Shack95 2,658]

3 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

That’s true. And many of us have been flying over orthoscenery, for me its been since XP9, where so much freeware ortho was available. MSFS’s use of ortho is convenient (in some ways), but it’s only novel to those who haven’t been paying attention to flight simming for the past decade.

I think the novelty is mainly that you can stream the data and that‘s quite a step forward if you ask me. No more spending an unreasonable amount of time on creating and downloading ortho scenery. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Shack95

[akita 429]

7 hours ago, kaosfere said:

I know full well what GPUs are capable of.  What it's possible I'm underestimating is your ability get them to magically generate a world from data that does not currently exist.  That is why I say it is not feasible at the moment.

 

I don't think anyone here is really missing the point.   I just think you came into this thread looking for a fight, for some reason, and you're determined to misconstrue everything everyone says to give you a strawman to sneer over.  I'm not feeding into it any further.

For the first part of the comment, so mesh, climate, vegetation, agricultural, bathymetry data etc.... are all voodoo magic that does not exist. got it, LFMAO.

For the second, Please re-read the thread, don't accuse me for what I'm not guilty for; on multiple comments I've been saying this has nothing to do with a "simulator war" (I have flight gear and ACE7 installed too!), I'm here to badger about what can be better (this is an "imagination" thread ain't it?), just like I do it in other simulator forums that I use. So please check who insisted me to post photos of other simulators for some reason, to compare to MSFS, although it was irrelevant to the point nor was my intention. If you don't want to waste your time on me, don't, ask that other passive aggressive pose style guy that really needed a break (and still wrote a lot in his comment) which now I'm not even reading. Aggressiveness toward anyone that is not parading your choice of home simulator is unfortunately common here, not me*.

(I'm convinced some of them are MS "influencers" btw, maybe even caught one just in this thread, accusations can go both sides as can be seen).

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by akita

[akita 429]

4 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Anyway, i just posted as i saw that the thread was 6 months old, and you’d made specific predictioms for what you thought would happen in that time frame. I think most users would opine that you were wrong about the success of patches and performance fixes.

 

Watch it mate, you may be accused of looking for fights! worse! he might want you to post Xplane/P3D pictures to compare! and only THEN you will be accused for starting world war#3.

Edited April 13, 2021 by akita

[OSM 683]

In a three years everybody will be flying in the FS2020 sky.

In a three years everybody will spend at least $100 to fly in the FS2020 sky.

In a three years all developers will be making good money in the FS2020 sky.

In a three years some will spend at least $100 to fly in the X-plane and P3D sky, but who cares? 😄😄😄

[abrams_tank 7,423]

1 hour ago, akita said:

For the first part of the comment, so mesh, climate, vegetation, agricultural, bathymetry data etc.... are all voodoo magic that does not exist. got it, LFMAO.

For the second, Please re-read the thread, don't accuse me for what I'm not guilty for; on multiple comments I've been saying this has nothing to do with a "simulator war" (I have flight gear and ACE7 installed too!), I'm here to badger about what can be better (this is an "imagination" thread ain't it?), just like I do it in other simulator forums that I use. So please check who insisted me to post photos of other simulators for some reason, to compare to MSFS, although it was irrelevant to the point nor was my intention. If you don't want to waste your time on me, don't, ask that other passive aggressive pose style guy that really needed a break (and still wrote a lot in his comment) which now I'm not even reading. Aggressiveness toward anyone that is not parading your choice of home simulator is unfortunately common here, not me*.

(I'm convinced some of them are MS "influencers" btw, maybe even caught one just in this thread, accusations can go both sides as can be seen).

 

 

So I can also claim you are an X-Plane influencer and X-Plane shill.  Maybe you should go back to the X-Plane forum?  Your first reply in this thread was to bash MSFS and praise X-Plane.  But remember you are here in the MSFS forum, not the X-Plane forum.  Then you call other people who defend MSFS, in the MSFS forum, "influencers."

Look, if I did this in the X-Plane forum, then maybe I am in the wrong.  But here it's the MSFS forum, not the X-Plane forum.  There are going to be people who will defend MSFS.

And for the record, I said I welcome all competition, including hoping that X-Plane and P3D up their game, because all of us consumers benefit the most.  The fact is, X-Plane and P3D improved very little in the last decade and didn't bring flight simulation to the 2020s.  MSFS brought flight simulation to the 2020s with the new technologies capable.  For flight simmers, we should be thankful for MSFS for doing this.

Without MSFS, it could be the year 2030 and we would be still staring at X-Plane/P3D level graphics, and downloading multiple TB worth of ortho data because that data cannot be streamed live, and we would still be spending hundreds to thousands of dollars to make our flight simulator look half decent.

Edited April 13, 2021 by abrams_tank

[abrams_tank 7,423]

2 hours ago, Shack95 said:

I think the novelty is mainly that you can stream the data and that‘s quite a step forward if you ask me. No more spending an unreasonable amount of time on creating and downloading ortho scenery. 

Weren't people downloading like 2 TB of ortho data for scenery?  That's like a 2 TB separate hard drive you have to have.  For MSFS, I only store about 120 GB so far, a fraction of that.  And I don't have to purchase a separate hard drive.

This is one of the biggest innovations of MSFS - taking advantage of the cloud.  Of course, there are server costs involved and people need to be hired to maintain those servers so we can get this stream of data.  What impresses me the most is that Microsoft can do this for $60 USD and not charge us a subscription fee for it.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

There is more photogrammetry for more cities now.  If you had been paying attention to the patches, more photogrammetry was added for various cities,

 

If you had been paying attention, you will note that I very specifically challenged you on the “bing maps has gotten more data” claim, not the subsequent point that the amount of photogrammetry cover has increased. As I previously noted, as a massive orthoscenery fan for many years, I am very aware of the unfortunate regression in Bing's image quality over recent times (2015 was a fine vintage, 2021 not so much). I'd say the image quality that Bing is delivering has been stable but not improving since the release of MSFS.

I don't have any wish to get into a "my sim is better than your sim" debate, which I can't do at any rate because MSFS is my sim as well. However, given the very low accuracy of your predictions to date, I don't think the P3D and X-Plane teams have too much to worry about despite your conviction that they are in terminal decline. :)

At the moment, it's all about different sims for different purposes. If you want to just pay $60, as you say, MSFS obviously looks the best and is simple. If you want to pay that much and get the best GA flight experience, X=plane is likely a better choice. If you want to fly VR in a tubeliner, then it's P3D all the way.

I don't quite understand why some simmers have to be evangelists for a single platform and deride all of the alternatives. I, personally, am platform agnostic.