So many times when I read threads like these I am saddened at the jaded outlook so many have... 

I just finished a multileg journey from Vancouver to San Diego using "real-time weather". I used the base ATC and at best loosely followed procedures.  I've been simming since the early 80's so I truly know what its like to have to apply a healthy dose of imagination in pursuit of "suspension of disbelief".  As far as the avionics and procedures of it all, I definitely employed some of that experience.

But in the end, given what I just experienced.. I could give a "word not allowed".  I flew the 7 hour journey in VR and it was absoutely amazing.  Flying out of Vancouver in the morning with the sun glinting off the bay, flying over the myriad islands and seeing houses with docks, etc.  Passing through a storm front and then slaloming through towers of cumulous (I was in the MB339 btw) before popping down through the deck to land at a rainy KPDX.  Then popping back up through the cloud deck to seeing several of the Cascade volcanoes sticking up through the clouds on the way down to San Fran, and being rewarded as I flew over the Golden Gate to moving cargo ships passing beneath the red superstructure (courtesy of the Global Ship traffic mod).... I could go on and on.  Was absolutely stunning and one of the best experiences I've had from any piece of software.

I have no issue with continuing to push for improvements in the systems and flight model (though I think the critiques are way overblow tbh).  But how can you not be even a little bit moved by the amazing experience?

Its like buying your first self-driving electric car, discovering its onboard AI has suddenly become sentient and can write its own poetry, and then returning it to the dealership for a refund because the cup holder is smaller than the SUV you just traded in.

Back to the OP and thread title.. if I look at examples such as WT CJ4, Just Flights Piper Arrow III, and the incredible work by the addon community and I couple that with the roadmap Asobo has been moving along, I think sim is going to continue to be my sim of choice in 3 years and beyond.

5 minutes ago, devgrp said:

lol I know what ifr is, but since you said you can fly out the box in xp and not msfs without mods, I want you to explain what makes it possible in xp and not msfs. I fly ifr in the tbm all the time and I've done rnav approaches.

Airliners.... I am talking about Airliners. They are not using the Garmin's. And yes you can do an Rnav, but that is not always the case, and most of the time you have phantom way points added... You can't do VOR DME either in an Airliner. 

I adore msfs, but I am also very annoyed that these basics for AIRLINERS are so badly done. Like it makes the airliners pointless. 

Until it's fixed as far as I understand, A32NX can't even put the vor needles on the map

2 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

So many times when I read threads like these I am saddened at the jaded outlook so many have... 

I just finished a multileg journey from Vancouver to San Diego using "real-time weather". I used the base ATC and at best loosely followed procedures.  I've been simming since the early 80's so I truly know what its like to have to apply a healthy dose of imagination in pursuit of "suspension of disbelief".  As far as the avionics and procedures of it all, I definitely employed some of that experience.

But in the end, given what I just experienced.. I could give a "word not allowed".  I flew the 7 hour journey in VR and it was absoutely amazing.  Flying out of Vancouver in the morning with the sun glinting off the bay, flying over the myriad islands and seeing houses with docks, etc.  Passing through a storm front and then slaloming through towers of cumulous (I was in the MB339 btw) before popping down through the deck to land at a rainy KPDX.  Then popping back up through the cloud deck to seeing several of the Cascade volcanoes sticking up through the clouds on the way down to San Fran, and being rewarded as I flew over the Golden Gate to moving cargo ships passing beneath the red superstructure (courtesy of the Global Ship traffic mod).... I could go on and on.  Was absolutely stunning and one of the best experiences I've had from any piece of software.

I have no issue with continuing to push for improvements in the systems and flight model (though I think the critiques are way overblow tbh).  But how can you not be even a little bit moved by the amazing experience?

Its like buying your first self-driving electric car, discovering its onboard AI has suddenly become sentient and can write its own poetry, and then returning it to the dealership for a refund because the cup holder is smaller than the SUV you just traded in.

Back to the OP and thread title.. if I look at examples such as WT CJ4, Just Flights Piper Arrow III, and the incredible work by the addon community and I couple that with the roadmap Asobo has been moving along, I think sim is going to continue to be my sim of choice in 3 years and beyond.

This is great stuff. But for me and a lot of people the missing realisim of the procedures is no good. It's no good for vatsim, you have to bumble your way through an approach and if I am offline using pilot2atc it's just annoying as the plane is mostly off course. So great you had an amazing time, some of us want it to be bang on the numbers and not have to imagine the realisim. Is that an issue when other Sims gives us this and VR and everything else if you have the time/money etc. 

All I want and I'm sure others want is the flight plans and procedures to be realistic.

33 minutes ago, a321 said:

Airliners.... I am talking about Airliners. They are not using the Garmin's. And yes you can do an Rnav, but that is not always the case, and most of the time you have phantom way points added... You can't do VOR DME either in an Airliner. 

I adore msfs, but I am also very annoyed that these basics for AIRLINERS are so badly done. Like it makes the airliners pointless. 

Until it's fixed as far as I understand, A32NX can't even put the vor needles on the map

The airliners will come though.  Already, we have a nice 3rd party airliner in the CRJ for MSFS.  And as I have pointed out in a designated thread for the CRJ, edwardthepilot and TimetoJet have said the CRJ for MSFS is very well done, with edwardthepilot even saying the CRJ for MSFS is better than the Aerosoft CRJ for P3D. edwardthepilot has already used the MSFS CRJ multiple times on VATSIM on his stream, flying IFR with the MSFS CRJ.

It will take time for other high fidelity airliners to be released for MSFS but it will happen over time. You gotta be patient, LOL.

Edited April 11, 20215 yr by abrams_tank

5 minutes ago, a321 said:

 It's no good for vatsim

As I mentioned already, this is not true.  The CRJ can be used properly for IFR on VATSIM.  You need to go watch edwardthepilot's stream on Twitch.  He is a type rated CRJ pilot and he has no problems flying the CRJ in IFR on VATSIM.

22 minutes ago, a321 said:

This is great stuff. But for me and a lot of people the missing realisim of the procedures is no good. It's no good for vatsim, you have to bumble your way through an approach and if I am offline using pilot2atc it's just annoying as the plane is mostly off course. So great you had an amazing time, some of us want it to be bang on the numbers and not have to imagine the realisim. Is that an issue when other Sims gives us this and VR and everything else if you have the time/money etc. 

All I want and I'm sure others want is the flight plans and procedures to be realistic.

But they dont.  Used X-Plane for 5 years ... loaded with custom orthos, hand built World2Xplane overlays .. tons of addons...

Not even close.

As far as a sim for the crowd that wants the computer to fly their plane for them, MSFS is rapidly getting there.  Abrams_tank just mentioned the CRJ.  Then there's the WT CJ4 and most recent Piper Arrow III, each with significant systems depth.   I think the arguments about flight models and avionics issues are becoming more and more obsolete by the day, often touted by people who played MSFS on release and havent been back since, so dont realize what's changed.  PMDG has specifically said they are underway in developing for it and that "nothing in the SDK precludes them" from delivering the level of detail and systems fidelity that is included in their releases for the older sims.  The title of the thread is MSFS in 3 years .. hard to think we will not be "there" by then.

From an empirical standpoint, I've already watched countless videos of people using Vatsim with MSFS successfully (EDIT: lol.. abrams_tank beat me to the punch on this one too 😉 ).  I'm not an airline pilot so I have to go by those who are that produce their youtube channels - the current "msfs issues" seem more like minor inconveniences than show stopping problems.  Maybe they just have more experience dealing with unforseen system problems that occur in real life?  Either way, it does seem to temper the "sky is falling", "msfs is hopeless and will never get there" world view touted by some.

Hopefully in 3 years it will all be DX12 and we will have the best SDK/Simconnect

Still I am getting my dreadfull Trim (Simconnect) CTD’s but till they appear I am enjoying the outside world :

 

 

I just need to see and read all the posts asking for and people getting impatient for the release of the next patch to prove to me this sim was released way too early and in a very unfinished state!

 

Patches need to be become a welcome addition not something that many can't wait for due to the current state of the game...

A working G1000 some time in the next 3 years would be nice. I still have FSX on my system for flights where working avionics are required.

I know about the CRJ I own it as well, but sadly using Aerosoft Data or NavData it will still have issues following a flight plan, and miss things DUE TO THE UNDERLYING SIM. I dont understand why it is so frowned upon to have an honest opinion and state facts. There are issues, I want realism MSFS cant offer that FULLY at the moment, It can be fixed, but IMHO it should never of been released like that? did they not check this out? It should be the 1st thing to fix as it effects everything. The auto pilot has its issues to. 

I honestly dont get it, It is not working right, no amount of excuses and work arounds can change that, and IMHO it should never of been released in that state, and it should not still be in this state. This does not mean that's it, everyone uninstall it...it just needs fixing. For some of us we really want that, for others no ok. 

Edited April 11, 20215 yr by a321

1 hour ago, VFXSimmer said:

But they dont.  Used X-Plane for 5 years ... loaded with custom orthos, hand built World2Xplane overlays .. tons of addons...

Not even close.

As far as a sim for the crowd that wants the computer to fly their plane for them, MSFS is rapidly getting there.  Abrams_tank just mentioned the CRJ.  Then there's the WT CJ4 and most recent Piper Arrow III, each with significant systems depth.   I think the arguments about flight models and avionics issues are becoming more and more obsolete by the day, often touted by people who played MSFS on release and havent been back since, so dont realize what's changed.  PMDG has specifically said they are underway in developing for it and that "nothing in the SDK precludes them" from delivering the level of detail and systems fidelity that is included in their releases for the older sims.  The title of the thread is MSFS in 3 years .. hard to think we will not be "there" by then.

From an empirical standpoint, I've already watched countless videos of people using Vatsim with MSFS successfully (EDIT: lol.. abrams_tank beat me to the punch on this one too 😉 ).  I'm not an airline pilot so I have to go by those who are that produce their youtube channels - the current "msfs issues" seem more like minor inconveniences than show stopping problems.  Maybe they just have more experience dealing with unforseen system problems that occur in real life?  Either way, it does seem to temper the "sky is falling", "msfs is hopeless and will never get there" world view touted by some.

Err but they do, Just go look at the Videos on You tube, unless you know better than real pilots! 

8 minutes ago, a321 said:

I know about the CRJ I own it as well, but sadly using Aerosoft Data or NavData it will still have issues following a flight plan, and miss things DUE TO THE UNDERLYING SIM. I dont understand why it is so frowned upon to have an honest opinion and state facts. There are issues, I want realism MSFS cant offer that FULLY at the moment, It can be fixed, but IMHO it should never of been released like that? did they not check this out? It should be the 1st thing to fix as it effects everything. The auto pilot has its issues to. 

I honestly dont get it, It is not working right, no amount of excuses and work arounds can change that, and IMHO it should never of been released in that state, and it should not still be in this state. This does not mean that's it, everyone uninstall it...it just needs fixing. For some of us we really want that, for others no ok. 

No disrespect to you, but are you a type rated CRJ pilot in real life?  Because edwardthepilot is. And he doesn't have issues with the CRJ in MSFS.  In fact, edwardthepilot has said most people that have problems flying the CRJ in MSFS is because they don't know the plane well enough in real life.

There are obviously some minor bugs with the CRJ and they will be fixed with time (and of course some bugs with MSFS too).  But if a type rated CRJ pilot says you can fly the MSFS CRJ on VATSIM without issues, I take his word over other people that are not type rated in the CRJ in real life. And TimeToJet is another type rated CRJ pilot in real life who also said the MSFS CRJ is quite good and he really enjoys it.

Edited April 11, 20215 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

As I mentioned already, this is not true.  The CRJ can be used properly for IFR on VATSIM.  You need to go watch edwardthepilot's stream on Twitch.  He is a type rated CRJ pilot and he has no problems flying the CRJ in IFR on VATSIM.

I've also flown the crj, tbm and sr22 (my favorite ga plane) on vatsim without any issues with full atc coverage. Friday night ops on vatsim is very fun btw. And for the record I've never flown a default plane in xp or p3d

8 minutes ago, a321 said:

I know about the CRJ I own it as well, but sadly using Aerosoft Data or NavData it will still have issues following a flight plan, and miss things DUE TO THE UNDERLYING SIM. I dont understand why it is so frowned upon to have an honest opinion and state facts. There are issues, I want realism MSFS cant offer that FULLY at the moment, It can be fixed, but IMHO it should never of been released like that? did they not check this out? It should be the 1st thing to fix as it effects everything. The auto pilot has its issues to. 

I honestly dont get it, It is not working right, no amount of excuses and work arounds can change that, and IMHO it should never of been released in that state, and it should not still be in this state. This does not mean that's it, everyone uninstall it...it just needs fixing. For some of us we really want that, for others no ok. 

 You keep saying msfs needs fixing, what do think asobo is doing? You really dont need msfs, stick with xp or p3d and come back in about 2 years. I'm sure it will have everything you need to be on the numbers. Dont know how you are operating the crj, but I've never had an issue with it not following a flight plan, haven't seen anyone mention that either.  You out here talking like xp and p3d is perfect after all those iterations and updates lol

48 minutes ago, a321 said:

Err but they do, Just go look at the Videos on You tube, unless you know better than real pilots! 

I have watched the videos.  That's my point.  And the example you included from 320 Sim Pilot is actually a great example FOR my point (he's one of my favorites).  He's not an apologist - happily points out the current limitations of msfs .. but he alse really enjoys it and has never once declared that it "should never have been released".  He points out the current flaws and moves on.. still completes his flights.

Clearly the sim was released too early by yours (and others) standards.  Personal opinion treads into tantrum when one declares that if its "not right for me, it shouldnt be right for anyone".  If MS/Asobo had waited for every feature to be 100% correct, then there would be a huge population who are loving it now (even at this stage) who would have been forced to wait another couple of years with "inferior" experiences (opinion mine) in last gen sims.  I'd personally rather enjoy the process getting in on "the ground floor" and watching with excitement as new patches come out and new teams deliver their latest mods.  If that makes me a "paid beta tester" then so be it.. who cares?, lol.  TBH, I would have happily paid $60 to have gotten in on the pre-release beta (and I suspect I wouldnt have been alone).