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Galileo or GPS - Which will you use?

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Just like you can choose a cellphone company - in a few years you will be able to choose a positioning system.The first Galileo satellite was launched today and the system plans to be fully operational world wide in 2008."The $4 billion Galileo project will eventually use about 30 satellites and is expected to more than double GPS coverage, providing satellite navigation for everyone from motorists to sailors to mapmakers. Because Galileo is under civilian control, the ESA also says it can guarantee operation at almost all times, unlike the American system. Last year, President Bush ordered plans for temporarily disabling GPS satellites during national crises to prevent terrorists from using the navigational technology. "Galileo is made in Europe by Europeans," ESA spokesman Franco Bonacina said. "If the Americans want to scramble GPS, they can do it whenever they want." Galileo will also be more exact than GPS, with precision of about three feet, compared to about 16 feet with GPS technology, ESA spokesman Franco Bonacina said. With Galileo, for example, rescue services will be able to tell ambulance drivers which lane to use on the highway, he said........Consumers are expected to be able to buy Galileo receivers in 2008, and they will be able to switch back and forth between GPS and Galileo, similar to how people can change between cell phone networks now, Bonacina said. The Galileo system should be fully functional by 2010. ........EU Transport Commissioner Jacques Barrot praised the program for benefiting both companies and ordinary citizens. "Radionavigation based on Galileo will be a feature of everyday life, helping to avoid traffic jams and tracking dangerous cargos, for example," he said. Last year, the EU and United States struck a deal to make Galileo compatible with the U.S. GPS system, ending a trans-Atlantic feud over the issue. "

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I think the question may be a bit premature. "Giove-A will check out the in-orbit performance of two atomic clocks - critical to any sat-nav system - and a number of other components that will be incorporated into the 30 satellites of the fully fledged Galileo constellation. These spacecraft - four of which have already been ordered - are expected all to be in orbit by the end of 2010. "http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4555298.stm

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A bit of an edge????That site is run by an anti-European group which, on principle, denigrates what the EU does.Note the conspiracy theory - it's all the journalist's fault.

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Hardly a conspiracy theory, the article provides some excellent points to counter the typical politically inspired EU grandstanding.Galileo is an overly expensive system which was created using taxpayer money for (officially) commercial purposes without the consent (in fact we weren't even asked if we wanted it on an informational basis) of those taxpayers.Its main purpose will be as a massive Big Brother to watch over all slaves (officially citizens) of the EU and its Asian brother the PRC.Those slaves will pay for it themselves through taxes levied on them for the use of the (mandatory) systems they'll need to have with them at all time to be thus tracked (at the moment those systems are too large to implant at birth, though that situation may be remedied in the not too distant future).The gripe at the media is quite correct. They do nothing except print the press releases coming out of Brussels, Paris, and Berlin and present those as irrefutable truths.

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yes and no. The reception of the signal itself will likely not require a fee based subscription (just as GPS doesn't), but European taxpayers will pay massive taxes to fund the system in order to enable their governments to keep track of where everyone is 24/7.Big Brother is watching you for free but you're supposed to pay for his binoculars.

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So now there's going to be competition. How can anyone who believes in a capitalistic economy possibly object to that.Let the marketplace decide.

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No it will not be free. The basic existing NAVSTAR service is free, but addition use of Galileo will not. You are paying for service guarentees added redundancy and accuracy from the use of an extra 30 (or so satellites) in addition to NAVSTAR's current constellation of 24. It is almost certain that EASA will ban IFR enroute and instrument approaches in European airspece unless using Galileo too.They estimate 190bn euros in revenue over the first 10 years. For a 20bn investment that's not a bad return and completely inappropriate.

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Sorry...did not mean to offend. BTW, the site is a "blog", not a group. Blogs tend to offer opinion, and I thought this blog had valid opinions on this topic.Best,bt

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>Hardly a conspiracy theory, the article provides some>excellent points to counter the typical politically inspired>EU grandstanding.>>Galileo is an overly expensive system which was created using>taxpayer money for (officially) commercial purposes without>the consent (in fact we weren't even asked if we wanted it on>an informational basis) of those taxpayers.>>Its main purpose will be as a massive Big Brother to watch>over all slaves (officially citizens) of the EU and its Asian>brother the PRC.>Those slaves will pay for it themselves through taxes levied>on them for the use of the (mandatory) systems they'll need to>have with them at all time to be thus tracked (at the moment>those systems are too large to implant at birth, though that>situation may be remedied in the not too distant future).>>The gripe at the media is quite correct. They do nothing>except print the press releases coming out of Brussels, Paris,>and Berlin and present those as irrefutable truths.First it is a falacy to claim the US GPS system is free while the Galileo burden is on the EU taxpayer! Who do you think paid for the GPS system? The US taxpayer! While the Europeans (an the rest of the world) get to use it for free!! Now the situation is just reversed. The EU will pay for Galileo, while the US and the rest of the world use it for free. The only ones that get both systems free, are those that are neither under US or EU control!As for it being mandatory for individuals to carry tracking devices, I don't think it would get to that at least here in the US. Although it is currently being done right now for infrastructure like Railways, airplanes, and trucks. It is also in your cell phone, but the stated purpose is only to provide enhanced 911 emergency services (US system to call Police, Fire, Ambulance) It will provide your location, to send help. I don't think though, people would tolerate it if it was shown to be used for general tracking of it's citizen's, although I admit the capability is there, and definately not if they they tried to make it mandatory to carry such devices. They don't have to though, since most people carry cell phones today anyway!!

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Rob, As per my previous point. You won't get a choice, in Europe, it'll be "Use our constellation or don't file IFR".

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I never said GPS is free and neither does anyone else.But GPS has an established military use which pays for its deployment, the civilian functionality is a spinoff from that.Galileo is a commercial product first, created using taxpayer money in order to extort more money from those same taxpayers.

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It has very valid issues. Good catch turning it up.If someone is offended by the truth being revealed that tells more about them than about the person bringing out that truth.

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I live in Canada, so GPS is Free for me :)

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I think they're valid. Although the big brother bit is a little far fetched. I wouldn't call hauliers tracking their fleet with GPS big brother. But I do think Europe sees a cash cow and forced usage of their constellation through regulation.

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>I never said GPS is free and neither does anyone else.>But GPS has an established military use which pays for its>deployment, the civilian functionality is a spinoff from>that.>>Galileo is a commercial product first, created using taxpayer>money in order to extort more money from those same>taxpayers.Yes I know, but my point is the US taxpayer pays for all US Military operations and equipment including GPS, so it is no different than the EU Taxpayer paying for Galileo.

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There is a difference. The US taxpayer gets something out of it through their military, the EU taxpayer does not.He's paying through his taxes for the existense of the system and then again through subscription fees to services using the system (many of which he'll be forced to sign up for by his government in order for that government to collect even more taxes from him).EU military forces use GPS widely, they're not about to move to Galileo (except maybe the French) as they're pretty much geared to US equipment.They I think pay the US for that use, again out of EU taxpayer pockets.

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haulers tracking their fleets isn't the problem, it's the plans EU countries have to install Galileo equipment and radio transmitters in every car that will send a signal with position, direction of travel, and speed (and possibly other vehicle data) to a police computer every minute or so.That will effectively tell the government where everyone using a car is at any time.At the same time trials are underway for a system to track the movement of everyone using public transport.Everyone will get a personalised chipcard which needs to be inserted into a slot in order to enter a bus or train. When exiting again the card is inserted again and the fee extracted. At the same time the route travelled is recorded.Those are not speculations, both systems are in development at this time with scheduled introduction in service over the coming years.Implants allowing the tracking of everyone with accuracy of a few meters aren't yet publicly announced but I've a feeling those are under development as well.There are already bracelets with GPS receivers and radio transmitters available to track people with house arrest...

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>>Those are not speculations, both systems are in development at this >>time with scheduled introduction in service over the coming years.For one thing, Europe cannot make these kinds of rules/laws/regulations. They are matters of national suzerainty. All Europe can do is provide the system and offer it. In the case of Euro controlled bodies such as EASA, they can (and probably will) mandate Galileo's use where the need currently exists.The UK wants to introduce a new road charging scheme using GPS. The proposal is just that. There is no development work in progress. It is still at the political stage and probably won't get very far for a while. This was announced nearly a year ago with no progress since then. No doubt they have Galileo in mind. I don't like the idea of it but as a speeding deterant and carbon tax it is a pretty neat solution. The initial system will be for commercial road traffic. However, the costs will be humungous and according to current proposals, the individual will have to pay much more so a few political hurdles still exist.The public transport thing won't happen the way described either. Simply because, for the UK at least, any effort to produce an integrated transport system has failed. The costs would be huge and Governments that increase taxes don't get voted in. London Transport has recently invested massively in Oyster and couldn't possibly take on another huge IT projects.Unfortunately for Big Brother, reality gets in the way. However, the UK government is using the war on terror to unfairly and unreasonably justify much of these efforts.

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When and if Brussels wants to introduce such systems the EC has the power to override national law of the memberstates to do it.The rejection of the so-called "constitution" makes it a bit more difficult but strong forces are at work in Brussels and Strassbourg to override the will of the people and implement it anyway. The UK is going to implement it, the Netherlands are already carrying out limited trials and the system is scheduled to go operational here in 2012.It's easy to get something implemented that is unpopular. Just make sure the actual implementation (rather than the decision to implement) is done by the next government (which will likely be run by another party) and you're sure to win the next elections after that and not take the blame (in fact you could use the program you yourself voted for to your favour by speaking up against it during implementation but not so loudly it gets cancelled).

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Yes, it is true that govs can implement something unpopular. The UK govs technique for doing this is to 'leak' something outrageous that causes much consternation and then the official proposal is watered down. Even though the officiel propsal would have been rejected out of hand if it were seen by the public first, but be because the previous 'leaked' version was totally outrageous the official one gets voted in by MPs. It is all a bit of a scam!Yes the UK is going to implement it as it is the inevitible logical conclusion to our road taxes, but it won't be up and running for another 15 years at least.>>When and if Brussels wants to introduce such systems the EC has the >>power to override national law of the memberstates to do it.That is not currently true. The EU cannot change national laws. National laws may need to be changed to come into line with EU bills that the nation has chosen to sign up to, the Human Rights legislation is one such.

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