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Guest Valkyrie321

Why gaming has changed

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I want to tell you all a little story about how the gaming community has changed, and how this relates to FSX. At the current time I am working several jobs, one of them being a part time seasonal job at a local GameStop store. For those not familiar with the store, it is a gaming specialty store that carries popular gaming systems (consoles) and games as well as PC games.The story starts today (day of post) at 11:30AM. We had received a shipment of Microsoft's newest game for the XBox 360 called "Gears of War." Well two versions of the game were distributed, the collectors addition and the regular addition. Unfortunately Fed Ex botches up the delivery and only delivered the regular version, leaving anyone that purchased the collectors edition out and dry. I figured it wasn't our fault, and as a store we were doing everything we could but alas it was a regional problem... either way, it wasn't our fault directly, as it rested squarely in the lap of FedEx. Boy was I wrong.After a full shift I was nearly ready to quit my job. I received several phone calls of dissatisfies customers who were angry they would have to wait a day. THAT IS RIGHT, A DAY! They could pick up their collectors edition in the morning with $5 smackos knocked off for the inconvenience... Even with everything said, the game coming in the next day and a discount I was cursed at violently for 8 hours. Four letter words seemed to be the order of the day, and they were all directed at me. Several customers cancelled their orders dooming them to a pickup of the game days later (since prepurchasing gave them the ability to get the game SEVERAL days before release.) I had at one point called the police because a customer wanted to have a fist fight with me in the middle of the store after accusing me (while cussing) of negligence and "getting in his face..." *sigh* Ok buddy.It didn't really hit me until later tonight. The gaming industry and the people who are customers in it has changed. I remember in the old DOS days when any tidbit of information was shared throughout the community. We were all geeks together, and we cared for each other. "I have to wait a day? Aww shucks... can't rush perfection I guess. See you tomorrow with money in hand." These values no longer hold true anymore. It is amazing to me that customers can become irate babies, cussing and stomping their feet like children in a playground that don't get their sucker, or a chance on the teeter totter. These people are "supposed" to be adults.I think this has infected the MSFSX community as well. I remember spending hours in FS5.0 tweaking and playing around with the settings, creating boot disks and working with QEMM386. It wasn't until I got a Pentium chip that things turned around for me, but back then we COULDN'T return games and HAD to work things out! Today, if people can't get things to run on a dual monitor with 5.1 speakers and their custom made butt kicker seat they get angry and violent. I have seen these actions in this forum, The Elder Scrolls Forums, as well as a plethora of others. Frankly, I am up to my ears with the stomping of feet. If you don't like the product, return it. If you can tweak it, tweak it. If it runs well, let it run well. For everyone's sake, stomping your feet and acting like a child does nobody good. We are all gamers here, and most of us adults. Lets start acting like mature gamers.I personally like FSX, and I hold no grudges to anyone that doesn't. I do however think it is a bit rude to stomp, ravage, rave and act like a lunatic if you didn't bother to do your homework. There are thousands of review sites, friends and/or/even a demo you can trial. You have NOBODY but to blame but yourself if you purchased the product on day one and found it to not be what you expected. People, please seek the appropriate avenue to voice your complaints, #### about it on an internet forum is like being a paraplegic playing soccer. Please, return it and move on. You will feel much better if you do... Lastly, one hour after returning it don't tell us about your adventure to the store to return it. I, nor anyone else cares, even if we agree that FSX might not have lived up to our expectations.If you read this far, thank you. I am only voicing my concern because I am tired of the way the internet community, and gamers in general now treat each other. I really feel ashamed to call myself a gamer sometimes, and I certainly feel moreso as a flightsimmer. It is hard to believe how times have changed, and I feel sorry for people who are new in this cold hearted gaming world.-Cody

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Sorry to hear about your crap day Cody. Good thing the Avsim forum is around to allow you to let off steam. Sounds like you needed it. You're right about asking people to do their homework. There was plenty of opportunity to try out FSX before committing the money. In my case I didn't get on with the demo so I didn't buy it. However, it doesn't stop me having strong feelings (negative) about FSX. We should separate those complaints between those that offer constructive criticism and those that are hopeless rants. The latter probably help the poster's mental health but the former should help the Aces team identify problem areas. There's probably a need for both.

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Yes, it's a shame to see everything going worser and worser. Look at people's faces, how many carry a smile?! Ellbow technique, brute force and brain-off-egomania rule in our current times. The best of it is that most people don't bother 'cause they're completely part of that game, world ends at their nose tips.The real poor people are those who recognize there's something badly wrong, unfortunately only a small and depressed minority...Andreas

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The Internet and mobile communication has changed all of our lifes towards a more fast-paced, demanding and increasingly impatient customers. We're expecting everything on a minutes notice and as structured and logical as a CPU. Unfortunately, that doesn't work that way. We have to remember that we're talking about a game, not a 2-weeks cruise across the Carribean.It would be amazing to find out what drives those customers to react so harshly from a psychological point of view that makes a computer game/simulation this important.

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Cody it's not just the gaming crowd, it's everyday life. Our society has become one of instant gratifictaion and also one of self gratification. I work in retail managemant and I see the same thing, along with the same mentality of "the customer is always right BS" taken to the extreme as well. Look at how many complain when an addon is not avaiable for d/l and only in box form, same deal.When I read the title I thought this was going to be about how stupid consoles were taking over PC gaming, LOLRegards, MichaelKDFW

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI-x16 / AMD

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Been there, done that.I was a Sales Associate at Babbage's during College (94-96). Loved it. PC gaming's Golden Era. I could talk Flight Sims to just about anyone who shopped there.A few years ago I got back into the biz and was a Manager at EB Games.Wow...BIG difference.I had 10 year olds cussing me out because I wouldn't sell them Vice City. THEN their mom would cuss me out for being rude to their "little angels"I've since left the industry for good.And yes, this attitude seems to be everywhere now. People are just "meaner" it seems. Common decency has left building ladies and gents...and it's only getting worse./rant over

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I worked retail in the 80's and people acted like idiots back then. I think gaming is just more mainstream now than in the DOS days so there's a much higher mainstream idiot factor.That said, I don't really understand people pre-ordering games. When has it been hard to find a game on release day? With all due respect, there is a bit of a "you made your bed now lie in it" factor with EBGames and GameStop and their heavy focus on preorders and used games and other sales tactics.Not excusing the idiots, but I would argue that EBGames and GameStop have also gone much more mainstream. They aren't fun places to shop anymore, and they aren't targeting the savvy customers--they are targeting the mainstream ones who don't know better.Sorry you had a bad day. I remember it well. That's why I got the heck out of retail.

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This is just a problem with society these days. It all goes back to the mentality that any time something goes wrong someone needs to be blamed and pay the price. I guess we can thank the lawyers and judges for that.Everyone needs to just relax a bit and realize that life isn't always fair.Matt

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Edited for spelling..Hah! Yah so true. Oh but I too work in retail mgt, and I can say both sides are guilty (although not ALWAYS, but usually one or the other approx 90% of the time).If most of these "customers" grew up in a world that didn't HAVE COMPUTERS, instead REAL PEOPLE when hobbies were telescopes, model trains, and a Saturday morning spent with your Dad going to the hobby shop to pick up a cool thing for the weekend, only to be helped by a courteous, knowledgeable and patient person who works there.Those were the days when both customers and shop clerks TOOK their time, knew their stuff, and if they didn't know something the two parties would actually share and acknowledge the fact that they didn't know that - and a "thank you"!?Then the telephone came lol...and the World started to change into what we see today.(wipes tear off desk)

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Unfortunatly, you are very right.I did some reflecting of this yesterday, as I thought about how long it took us to get FS9 to where it is, and were all trying to have fsx "done" in under two weeks ...Personally, I still miss my 4Dboxing, and remember feeling like a god as I could tweak my autoexec.bat/config.sys so Falcon or F117 would load (with info help from a bbs or compuserve). I remember us as being the same tweakers then as we are today, but the pulse was a little friendlier. Younger generation story? - just like my dad says about me, and his said about him etc. Not sure, all I know is I'm getting close to 40, and I still haven't reached maturity ;)oh and I really miss Harpoon ...RegardsGarettOh I forgot the best part - Having the guys at Radio Shack give you the newest 5-1/4" games to take home to TRY!! Ahhh, but I never did tell them I hooked up a second bay drive on my TRS-80 III . he he he he That was my first Flightsim experience - Sublogic.

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Well our western society has gradually, over many years, produced what we have today. It is the whole mechanics and foundation of our society. Produce more for less and maximize profits.It is the very companies that produce market and retail the games that have slowly done their share in increasing this narcotic behavior we all observe in ourselves.As I say too many of my friends, what makes you think that you are any better or have magically changed from not too long ago, a generation that enslaved, tortured and did anything possible to other human beings, all in the name of Power and Money!The only difference nowadays, is that the slave masters of today have redirected, optimized and have generally mastered how to use you, us, others to continuously feed an endless greed for power and money.Do you really think that the producers of entertainment (gaming industry) really care if we lose our dignity, sanity and values over a game so long as we continue to buy their product? Come on! As they find out that people were cussing and literally about to physically hurt people like

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People are just plain tired of incompetence. I am the same way myself. I see nothing but incompetence and mistakes made on a daily basis. People have lost all sense of accountability for their screw-ups. Fedex screwed up and they should be held accountable to the point of refunds of large sums of money to the people that they caused this to happen to. The little guy is tired of corporations (and our government for the past 6 years, although i degress) screwing them on a daily basis and it makes them mean and you get the kind of behavior that you got today. Factor that in with the fact that both parents have to work these days to own a decent place in the suburbs and little johnny raises himself with video games and tv. Basic socioeconomics at work here. Don't take it personally. I worked retail when i was young and people were jerks then too. They just get a little worse each year.

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>Oh I forgot the best part - Having the guys at Radio Shack>give you the newest 5-1/4" games to take home to TRY!! Ahhh,>but I never did tell them I hooked up a second bay drive on my>TRS-80 III . he he he he That was my first Flightsim>experience - Sublogic.>I remember being about 15 and subscribing to a Commodore 64 magazine called Compute that used to print programs in the back of the magazine that you'd have to manually type in. I remember spending hours typing in all the code to create a lemonade stand game. It's amazing I ever had girlfriends.Matt

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I remember being 24 and subscribing to Compute-spending all day typing in a program-a word processor-then being amazed the printer responded and actually could print italics..Good post Cody-and sadly true. Sounds like you need a little multiplayer and a vodka and tonic...my medicine lately.. :-lolhttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Hey Cody-Nice post and a sign of the times. I'm a flight simmer and a middle school teacher as well. I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that what you're saying is true, however, you haven't seen nothin' until you've followed me aound for a single day. Retail sales is a cakewalk... :>)Mr. Mark

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You are probably right, which is quite sad. Sadly, I also wouldn't make a post like this in many other forums, including the ones I moderate for fear of the backlash. Perhaps I may be just another ripple in the pool, but honestly I believe not only is it a sign of our times, but I think we as citizens need to stand up to such things.I was so very shocked that nobody else in the store bothered to say anything to the man and allowed us workers to get yelled at. In all honesty if I was on the other end of the sales desk I would have said my piece to the irate man... not only to quell my own peace of mind, but to stand up to this junk in our society. We have become pacifists, and it bothers me.Anyways, perhaps another debate for another time. I thank you all kindly for your words. I hope that those of you that read it take a little time out and think about what I said before you become stern with someone just doing their best to do their job. No point in shooting the middle man, we are all just trying to put bread on the table.

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Sorry to play devil's advocate but that IS the nature of your position, something you either deal with or get another profession. People are people and unlike what some may think have always been this way and most likely always will. You are not really talking about gamers but PEOPLE who also happen to play games - whether they be fathers, brothers or sisters. PEOPLE, that is, SOME people are rude and childish and impatient. It is not something "new" even if your experience might reflect somewhat in regards to your argument. I work in the security industry and deal with folks who balk at me asking for some form of ID to enter a building housing one of the Israeli consulate offices. I could let people like this get to me or I could just do what I am paid to do and deal with it, I choose to be in control and no longer let such people bother me or I could NOT do my job. At the end of the day I get paid to perform a function that also involves dealing with the occasional jerk of the planet, and in this I see that I am certainly not alone. If your job asks you to listen to such folks who curse-cry-complain at you for the sake of "customer service" then perhaps looking for another job is not such a bad idea for you or you can deal with it. In the end I would never let such people dictate my profession or choices. Best,Randy J. Smith<<>>

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It wasn't a complaint Randy. I have been doing retail for over 6 years, separated by 6 years active duty military. To be blunt, there is also a large difference between doing security (in which you hold the chips, badge and restraining devices) and being a customer service representative (where the customer is always right.) I have been in many worse situations (namely the military) but even at that, it does not excuse and I refuse to excuse these people's behavior. Currently and most unfortunately I am inbetween jobs and trying to make ends meet, that means doing what I have to do to get things done. What disturbs me most is that people ALLOW others to act in this way, watch the situation unfold and then continue shopping like nothing happened.I tell you what though, to a kid just trying to get work experience or working a job while they go to college, these reps are surely not getting paid enough to be treated like scum. If I had of been the owner of that store, in a personal franchise I would have tossed that man out of my store in his ear, but then lawyers and insurance get in the way...Like I said, different debate, but I think as a society we really should not put up with that junk. I also strongly believe that while there may have been a few bad eggs years ago, the disease is spreading. Before I left for the military I NEVER had to deal with such rude customers.*shrugs*I guess I am just an old hat living in a new society. I will never understand or condone those acts, but my hand is forced at this time.Becoming a small business owner is beginning to like it might have its benefits....

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You think you got problems, I work for a debt collection attorney. I was told I'd be sued for slander today because this woman was mad about a check we sent to her for her overpaid judgment. Crazy! She was cussing like crazy, so I said "Lady, what do what me to do? Yelling isn't going to make the check get their any faster". That was it! She wanted to sue me for slander, LOL

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Matt,OOOOhh I forgot I did that!Also Sinclair Spectrum!I recall typing in Asteroids in C64.What we were doing was learning to 'talk' computer, so we talked the talk with others at computer clubs etc.Nerds we were (and still are) but boy, were we right! The computers were the future!So, when we Fs, we have a background of being able to 'talk the talk' to our Fs with tweaks and the 'fun'(???) of getting it as we want it. We have no fear! We know that if we break it, we can fix it.Th ecomouter say sit cannot do something...we say "Oh Yeah? You think?", we then make it do what it was impossible to do!So, we learned a valuable lessons that still holds today....computers are stupid! Indeed, like adolescent boys, they know nothing! They can do a lot, run fast, read fast, throw and catch a ball, but really know nothing.I detect a great deal of adolescent sentence structure (I am a teacher) in the flame posts that hit this forum and others. I would hypothesise, that many flame wars are started by these kids for the #### of it!Yeah, I was amazed that women talked to me, and astounded that one married me!Great post, good topic!

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I know where you're coming from there Cody, I work for a PC manufacturer here in the UK, started 8 years ago in our production area, building them. Now I'm in Customer services for the last 3 years, and I know exactly about people being mean. We give a 1 year warranty on our PC's, and if something goes wrong within that time people start demanding refunds, no matter how hard you explain that the reason we give a one year on electrical goods is because anything that is going to go wrong will probably do so within the 1st year. We also try to explain that the item will not be 'repaired' as such but the part that went wrong is replaced, you can't repair a motherboard anymore it's just not economical.But no they stamp and scream and threaten to go to a lawyer or the Citizens Advice or Trading Standards or whatever. Thankfully if they throw a few f's into us we are under instruction to terminate the call, as long as we warn them first.I've actually been told by a lady I work with I'm 'too nice'. Too nice? What the #### does that mean? I was brought up to be a gentleman, to treat people with respect, especially women. The world has changed, for the worse. I have to say this and it hurts to think this way but if Armageddon happened tomorrow I could care less, as long as it's only the human race affected. And why do I feel that way? Because I've watched the world go so far downhill. It's right that it's not just gaming, it's everything. I can remember a time when if somebody was in trouble, somebody would stop and help. As a child I had a panic attack on some stairs in a museum, and a gentleman started talking to me until I got down the stairs (I'd got stuck at the top). You couldn't do that now, you'd be accused of being a peado, what has the world come to?

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Bad customer behavior seems to be rampant in all forms of retail. My son works in a hat store in the mall and some of the stories he returns home with are incredulous regarding the out-and-out venom that some people feel obliged to spew on a regular basis.He has had to have mall security physically eject two people from the store.People have no personal restraints on their public behavior these days and are not in the least bit ashamed by berating and cursing at some poor clerk behind the cash register. People seem to feel that whatever their behavior, their particular circumstances justify it regardless of any pretense of civil behavior.The anonymity of the Internet has now bled over into face-to-face interactions, in my humble opinion.I was in one of our local EBgames last weekend and was depressed when remembering the glory days of PC gaming when PC games ruled the shelf space. Today, they are barely a half-a-section compared to the inventory of the entire store. Maybe I'm just getting old and the world is moving on without me.......

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Yeah, our GameStop has a small row of games for PCs, it can not take up more than perhaps 1/40th of the stock located throughout the store in total. With that said, I have YET to walk into a Fred Meyers or WalMart that didn't have a huge stock of PC video games!

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