I am just learning how to do ILS landings and have been doing them with the TBM. I have managed a few now but I am not clear on WHEN I should be doing things, so I have some questions.

1. When should I Load/Activate the Approach in the Procedures screen?

2. When should I Click the App button on the AP Control Panel?

3. When should you start slowing from Cruise speed?

 

And speaking of the TBM, I have the CH Throttle Quadrant. IRL the aircraft has a Single Throttle Control. I know that I have to have my Mixture lever at 100% or the engine dies. Also, I do notice a change in engine pitch if I move the Prop lever to 100%, even though IRL there is no Prop control.

4. To fly the TBM should you just forget the CH device and use the Mouse to move the Throttle in the cockpit?

24 minutes ago, Mikeingreen said:

I am just learning how to do ILS landings and have been doing them with the TBM. I have managed a few now but I am not clear on WHEN I should be doing things, so I have some questions.

1. When should I Load/Activate the Approach in the Procedures screen?

2. When should I Click the App button on the AP Control Panel?

3. When should you start slowing from Cruise speed?

 

1)  If you have used the approach as part of your flight plan it will activate automaticall and your compass directon needle will change from Purple to Green and on the tape.. the ILS diamond will turn green at the same time.  If you are manually loading it.. make sure it is in and available at least 20NM from the airport and there is a waypoint between starting the approach and the airport..

2)  I click the app button on the AP  once the compass rose has gone green and the aircraft heading is roughly on course but you MUST do it before the last waypoint on the approach and BEFORE the green diamond is below your height..  currently you HAVE to approach the glideslope from below.. but again, I believe that is real world stuff as well..

3)  once I get to about 15NM from the airport, I drag my speed down to about 170 - 180..  when the green diamond starts descending I bring the speed right back with the aim of being in wheels down, flaps 1 before the actual descent on the ILS starts..   I believe the little diamonds on the tape mark these positions and technically you should be in wheels down, flaps 1 and stable when the green diamond passes the topmost white diamond.   I then try to control descent so that I am landing with flaps1 at around 110 - 120  or with flaps 2 at around 95 - 85, however I never use flaps 2 for landing unless it's a grass strip (  probably no ILS 🙂  ) or a really short runway..   and be careful.. the TBM flares and will really float along a runway..  make sure you push it onto the ground, but without snapping off the wheel struts 🙂

If you are porpoising on approach, you are probably going to fast 🙂

Let me state here.. I have NO idea what the actual figures or procedures are for this aircraft in real life, all the above is what I have learnt from flying it in the sim.  All my real world flying was in a single piston with steam dials before the word Garmin was even a twinkle in someones eye and I never did instruments or A/P stuffs.

As to the controller, no idea sorry 🙂

Graham

Edited October 22, 20205 yr by Moria15

I have another controller question to add.

5. I have read about people having issues with conflicts by having rudder control mapped to pedals AND keyboard. Is it best to unmap ALL keyboard controls that are also mapped to other devices, like a throttle quadrant or yoke?

 

16 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

all the above is what I have learnt from flying it in the sim

Impressive, but no wonder with your SEP background 🙂. The POH for the TBM 930 calls for Flaps TO (1) when speed < 178 KIAS (that's VFE, the maximum allowed speed for Flaps extended). Flaps LDG (2) is permissable with speed <122 KIAS. Approach speed with Flaps LDG is 85 KIAS. However there is no procedure for landing with Flaps TO, even with strong crosswinds (max xwind is 20 kts btw.). Here's what the POH says: It is not desirable to adopt configuration with flaps TO. Lateral control is not improved, and flare phase is lengthened in time and in distance, with increase of piloting difficulties and landing performance.

To the OP:

Being a beginner it is no mistake to stick with Graham's procedure as it will make for a stabilized approach and is therefore key for a succesful landing. When you feel more confident you might want to try to keep the speed high on the approach when flying into busy airports. At my home airport it is expected by ATC to keep 170 KIAS until the outer marker as long as it is operational practicable. In the TBM, that would mean handflying as the POH states: However, when autopilot is engaged, in APR mode, with coupled GS, flaps must be extended in landing position before crossing the OUTER MARKER. And that would mean <122 KIAS and a tad more spacing for the following traffic....

And just to clarify: I'm also only a piston jockey.

Just now, Mikeingreen said:

Is it best to unmap ALL keyboard controls that are also mapped to other devices, like a throttle quadrant or yoke?

I can't remember that I deleted any mappings when I mapped the rudder axis in the sim. As long as you don't run into problems.....

2 hours ago, Mikeingreen said:

I am just learning how to do ILS landings and have been doing them with the TBM.

There's your first mistake. Try the G1000 172. It would make the learning so much easier.

49 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

There's your first mistake. Try the G1000 172. It would make the learning so much easier.

Yes, but while I am learning I am also trying to fly from my home in Kansas to my Daughters home in Snohomish WA. TBM makes that much easier 😊

9 minutes ago, Mikeingreen said:

Yes, but while I am learning I am also trying to fly from my home in Kansas to my Daughters home in Snohomish WA. TBM makes that much easier 😊

That is a fair point. Honestly I can see the appeal and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it's a bit like learning to drive in a Formula 1 car.

If you really want to do it this way I'd recommend looking at the POH and trying to create a checklist for yourself where you can list a step by step process for slowing down, getting stabilized, deploying flaps, then eventually the gear, etc. The problem with learning this stuff in a fast airplane like the TBM is that everything happens quickly. Try starting the process a good ways out from the airport. Start your descent at least 50 miles out, depending on your altitude, and getting slowed down and ready for the approach at least 20 miles out. Give yourself time. Going down and slowing down at the same time is not easy while trying to prepare for an approach, configure the airplane, etc. 

Edited October 22, 20205 yr by mtr75

14 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

That is a fair point. Honestly I can see the appeal and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it's a bit like learning to drive in a Formula 1 car.

If you really want to do it this way I'd recommend looking at the POH and trying to create a checklist for yourself where you can list a step by step process for slowing down, getting stabilized, deploying flaps, then eventually the gear, etc. The problem with learning this stuff in a fast airplane like the TBM is that everything happens quickly. Try starting the process a good ways out from the airport. Start your descent at least 50 miles out, depending on your altitude, and getting slowed down and ready for the approach at least 20 miles out. Give yourself time. Going down and slowing down at the same time is not easy while trying to prepare for an approach, configure the airplane, etc. 

I will go back and try that eventually. You say 50 miles out but it has so far been my experience that ATC tells you when to descend and I have been following that. I am not really having an issue with the getting things done at speed, so far. I am use to things happening quick as I spend a lot of time sim racing ;). I just have been thinking that I am slowing down way too early is why I was asking when. I have watched quite a few videos but to be honest they either don't cover WHEN and they also give quite a bunch of conflicting information.

2 hours ago, Tom_L said:

Impressive, but no wonder with your SEP background 🙂. The POH for the TBM 930 calls for Flaps TO (1) when speed < 178 KIAS (that's VFE, the maximum allowed speed for Flaps extended). Flaps LDG (2) is permissable with speed <122 KIAS. Approach speed with Flaps LDG is 85 KIAS. However there is no procedure for landing with Flaps TO, even with strong crosswinds (max xwind is 20 kts btw.). Here's what the POH says: It is not desirable to adopt configuration with flaps TO. Lateral control is not improved, and flare phase is lengthened in time and in distance, with increase of piloting difficulties and landing performance.

To the OP:

Being a beginner it is no mistake to stick with Graham's procedure as it will make for a stabilized approach and is therefore key for a succesful landing. When you feel more confident you might want to try to keep the speed high on the approach when flying into busy airports. At my home airport it is expected by ATC to keep 170 KIAS until the outer marker as long as it is operational practicable. In the TBM, that would mean handflying as the POH states: However, when autopilot is engaged, in APR mode, with coupled GS, flaps must be extended in landing position before crossing the OUTER MARKER. And that would mean <122 KIAS and a tad more spacing for the following traffic....

And just to clarify: I'm also only a piston jockey.

Thanks  but I'm really interested in your comment about landing with FlapsTO.. that does exactly match what I have been seeing in the Sim...  I may have to change myself to fully using FlapsLDG  and see if that improves the flare issues at touchdown....   or at least reduce the float some. 

My issue with the speed to 170knts till outer is that we have no way (currently) to use the prop to slow down and no speedbrakes..  so by the time you are on outer, you are already on descent and so bleeding the speed that late is not going to be an option 😞

Seeing the real stuff and what I have found leads me to think that this stuff may be far more accurate than some realise 🙂

PS  I knew I shouldn't have been flying yesterday in a 65kt crosswind at landing   LOL  🙂

Graham

Edited October 22, 20205 yr by Moria15

Another question.

 

When do you usually disconnect the autopilot on ILS landing ?

When do you usually turn off the Yaw Damper on ILS landing ?

 

Usually I disconnect AP like around 40feet above ground and and sometimes forget the YD on...

4 minutes ago, Concorde79 said:

Another question.

 

When do you usually disconnect the autopilot on ILS landing ?

When do you usually turn off the Yaw Damper on ILS landing ?

 

Usually I disconnect AP like around 40feet above ground and and sometimes forget the YD on...

Turn off both at Decision Height.. typically 400 feet AGL.

3 hours ago, Mikeingreen said:

I have another controller question to add.

5. I have read about people having issues with conflicts by having rudder control mapped to pedals AND keyboard. Is it best to unmap ALL keyboard controls that are also mapped to other devices, like a throttle quadrant or yoke?

 

Yes

4 hours ago, Mikeingreen said:

4. To fly the TBM should you just forget the CH device and use the Mouse to move the Throttle in the cockpit?

I would use the CH throttle, much more convenient..

Does anyone know how to select NDB frequencies in the TBM G3000 ?