what the .... what are you talking about? that is what I was hearing. now if you want to just play the childish games after you get done with the insults and stand on your high horse talking about "my" attitude then go right ahead.

It's ok, Al, I'll just let someone else answer you from now on...rofl.

Jeff,I

Yeah, rgr that Charlie. All FAR's here are pretty much hard and fast unless otherwise published or as to the safe conduct of the flight.I've never ever heard ATC issue faster than 250 while under 10K or in the Class Bravo during arrivials or departures.Maybe something recently changed (hehe), who knows I'll ask some of my controller friends here in KC next time I see them.From the sounds of it, Jim (Hornit), who is actively flying for a major air carrier in another part of the country has never heard it either. Many others have replied here with the same thing.As far as the UK goes I can't say with any certainty. I'll take your word for it. It sounds like it threw you off a bit also...lol.

Jeff,For kicks I'll have to listen to online ATC sometime soon. There may be a clue as to what I believe I've heard in the past by hearing something similar again. LiveATC has a number of active links, and I can record a session and play it back later. If I actually find anything that seems like a contradiction of the rule, I can post the audio snippet and let y'all decide. -John

I'm emailing NATCA in the LA area right now...lol. I'll let you know.

uhhh yeah, whatever you sayanyway thanks for a waste of time

>ok here goes>>departure, united 122 with you passing 1 for 5>>united 122, radar contact, climb and maintain 9 thousand, do>not exceed 280 knots>>roger, do not exceed 280 knots, united 122what time of day is it? what runways are they using? if it was a commercial aircraft they would be on a departure. which departure procedure was being used?there is:cataline fivechaty twogabre fivegorman four (specifically states 250kt unless directed by ATC)holtz fiveimper onekwyet one (specifically states 230kt until kwyet)laxx fiveloop fourperch ninesan diego fivesebby fourventura fivealso the magic altitude on all of these departures is 3000 and not 5000.

the altitudes were just a guess, I know it was below 10k but wasnt sure the exactly altitude, but they did get higher than 3k. it was late at night 11pm or later on a saturday, not very busy. they all departed the 24s and 25s, I have no idea what their departures were as I wasnt listening into the clearence freq

WOW! Ok I wasn't trying to be pompous or condescending, truly!Nobody, repeat, NOBODY goes faster than 250 kts :)Hornit

Hey Jim,Is your BS account not working?

>>Nobody, repeat, NOBODY goes faster than 250 kts <10K (In the>US) unless the clean speed needs to be higher than that. I am not going to argue with you, but I am just wondering whether you are saying this only because you personally have not experienced it, or whether you happen to know every single mind of every single controller. the way I overheard their conversation, they were clearned to an altitude below 10k but were told do not exceed 280 knots. nothing about 280 knots above 10k or anything similar. To me, it looked like the ATC was allowing higher speeds because 1. they were departing over water as the 24 and 25 runways do at LAX2. it was later at night and traffic was very lightI could be wrong, of course. But I have seen and read about instances where high speed clearences were allowed not "only" for weight restrictions, which you said in this post, and ridiculed me for in your first post(but of course, as Jeff said, its "my" attitude which stinks)

alex,1st the altitude was 5000 then it was "something below 10k". could it be POSSIBLE you didn't hear the one preceding it (ie it was one-five thousand)?i have one time where we exceeded 250 <10k (see prior post), however this was a controller mistake and using this to create the space he needs. any other time is usually the "d' oh!" variety and a nasa form to fill out.

no it was below 10k.could it be possible that this actually happened? I forgot pilots have to know everything and any layman is just too stupid to understand...but then why wouldnt the controller make sure his specified speed was "above 10k do not exceed 280 knots" instead of slowly saying do not exceed two eight zero knotsI guess this discussion was over before it started. everyones sure I am wrong and that couldn't possibly happen. absolutely no help

>but then why wouldnt the controller make sure his specified>speed was "above 10k do not exceed 280 knots" instead of>slowly saying do not exceed two eight zero knotsbecause below 10k above 250 is IMPLIED. there is no need to mention it. all the time at ohare they will tell us do not exceed 270 (insert speed in here) for spacing when we are at 6 climbing.>I guess this discussion was over before it started. everyones>sure I am wrong and that couldn't possibly happen. absolutely>no helpsorry, but it is a reg. it's no different than someone telling you to go ahead and drive 100 in a 25mph zone.but again, i give you being late at night with little traffic, they might have waived it. someone is emailing ATC to verify this. by all means you could be correct.