Al,You really need to know who your talking to."Hornit", Jim is a Delta Airlines Captain...rofl, with many years of experience. Give us a friggin break would you?As for me, I'm just a lowly PPL who has happened to fly into LAX as PIC (once). LAX is my old stompin grounds as a pax.

To add an international perspective, the flight procedures at major airports in the UK impose a speed limit of 250kts for the first 20 to 30 miles which applies to all departures while flying below FL100 in order to improve departure flow. The transition altitudes are 6000 ft at both Gatwick and Heathrow. ATC tries to lift the restriction as soon as possible and will say "No ATC speed restriction" to remove it.I can see no reason why ATC should not intruct a higher speed to improve flow control if a gap develops between two aircraft.

>I can see no reason why ATC should not intruct a higher speed>to improve flow control if a gap develops between two>aircraft.noise abatement.Not departure but arrival instructions around Schiphol state very specific speed limits.over 250 knots until Y miles out, then 220 knots max until X miles out, then 180 knots max., etc.All at discretion of ATC of course, who sometimes will slow people down to avoid conflicts but are not at liberty to give higher speeds unless in emergencies.

>the 13 thousand was just an example, so unless you hear no>speed limit there is always a speed limit?Yes.

>so you've never seen it allowed, does that mean it isn't>allowed? if you ever become pilot of a heavy jet, especially a>747, then you might change your tune.>>ive heard it all the time, from pilots on various forums, in>dvds i own, and in ATCs speaking on my scannerThere are three cases in the USA where you will find on your scanner, aircraft exceeding 250kts below 10000.1. If the aircraft is a heavy Heavy (ie heavy 747) whose minimum maneuvering speed for their current weight exceeds 250kts, in which case the pilot can advise ATC of their need for a speed greater than 250kts.2. If you were scanning the Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport circa 2002-2003 when the FAA ran an experiment to see if traffic could be increased by allowing departures to exceed 250kts below 10000 within its Class B.3. If it is the following situation as overheard the one evening.ATC: "Southwest ### say your speed."Southwest ###: "250."ATC: "Ok, the guy ahead is doing 250 and you've got 80 knots on him."Southwest ###: "They just polished our plane."

>If you are going faster than 250 kts below 10,000 feet and it>can be proven, you WILL get violated. Its a hard rule and in>16 years doing this I have NEVER seen atc allow it.>>HornitI'm suspecting JohnCi is sitting back there watching the groundspeed with a GPS or "Airshow" up on the monitors. Of course with the TAS difference and a little tailwind, those passengers back there will often see groundspeeds in excess of 300kts even though we're below 10,000 doing 250 or less.

I mainly fly from Gatwick to the Iberian Peninsula. We frequently fly 300 to 320kts @ 3000' after departure from Gatwick. First ATC instruction after switching from tower to London is almost always accompanies by "No ATC speed restriction" as mgh mentioned. During arrivals in to Gatwick it is not uncommon to get "No speed restrictions" or "Maintain high speed" Same for arrivals in Spain and Portugal. The rule here in Europe is, as far as I know, 250kts below 10000' unless otherwise instructed by ATC. (In Spain the alt is 12 or 14 thousand I think, not sure, don

"I'm suspecting JohnCi is sitting back there watching the groundspeed with a GPS or "Airshow" up on the monitors"Negative,On these flights I have listened in to ATC comms which UAL (and American at one point) made available on in flight audio. That, and my experience with flight and ATC, makes me believe I know what I am hearing. The one instance where we were cleared for faster than 250KIAS was on approach into SFO several years back, and we had descended below 10,000 ft. Why we were cleared for the faster speed, I don't know, but it may have been for some good reason privy only to ATC.-John

one time climbing out of ORD we were at 5000' and they told us to pick it up to 280 knots.i replied, "we are at 5-thousand, understand you want 280 knots?""affirmative." he replied.of course there are the stories of "american XXX is your airspeed 250 knots?""uh....it is now""yeah thats what i thought..."nasa form after flight.

>"Hornit", Jim is a Delta Airlines Captain...rofl, with many>years of experience. Give us a friggin break would you?>good for him, and the "never" exceed the speed limit is obviously wrong, as proven by the posts here.I am glad he is a captain, but he should know that obeying the speed limit at all times is not possible for heavy aircraft, and sometimes waived during off hours.Why don't you give ME a break? why do you and others always have to run in and claim to know it all? I have seen first hand and on DVDs the speed limit being broken, but now I should just STFU because a "real captain" with years of experience tells me it NEVER HAPPENS?

Going offline...LOL

so my question now after not really getting an answer is, why would the ATC let an airplane know when they are at 2 thousand feet, to not exceed 280 knots? IMO that is waiving the speed restriction. but I guess I would have had to ask the ATC there if thats what they ment as there obviously is no set in stone rule regarding that judging by the replies here

There is an actual FAR that defines the speed limit...ROFL.Shall I get it for you?

Charlie,Are you flying as PIC? I could be wrong of course, but...We have a phrase similar to what you're hearing as well. It's usually "give me your best speed to the marker" or something similar for a/c initiating the approach.The 250 speed restriction is still in place though. Speed for spacing is common but I would be very hesitant to say that they still want arrivals faster than 250 when below 10K.In the US the only instance where a pilot may break an FAR is 'for the safety of the flight" or "as published". I think the British equivalent is similar.I've heard arrival instructions where aircraft are still higher that 10K and the controller issues a descent but also issues a suplimentary instruction of "do not exceed 250 when below 10K"I have a few contacts at the BAA at EGKK and could find out for you. I know our Will also flies alot in that airspace, so he can probably clear that up as well.It's confusing at times when you hear it casually and can seem like they want those a/c at higher speeds, but I don't think anyone can ever say they intentionaly exceeded 250 while in the Class B (or similar for EU) or below 10K. Those a/c were probably still higher than 10K.

The UK noise abatement procedures are based on aircraft not exceeding noise limits at monitoring points and by following noise preferential routings - these correspond to the published SIDs. There are no speed limits in the noise abatement procedures. Noise abatement is the pilot's responsibility, not ATC's.The AIP states that the 250 kt speed limit is explicitly for the purposes of flow control and that ATC will try to remove it as soon as possible by using the phrase "No ATC speed restriction". However, removing the speed limit "must not be interpreted as relieving the pilot of his responsibility for the observance of any noise abatement procedure which may include a speed/power limitation." EDITI've just realised you've switched your argument to arrivals, not departures which is what this discussion is about.