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Jeff Nielsen

Do not exceed xxx knots

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this is a myth...the speed restriction is a standard BUT can be increased at anytime by the ATC. This is often done with heavy lifts out of major B class airspace in the US.

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I've been on commercial flights before where a 280kt speed restriction was placed between 10000 feet and the flight levels--it's not that uncommon. And I have been on commercial flights below 10,000 feet where we've been able to kick it up a notch and fly faster than 250kts. O/T I'm reminded of two flights where I got where I was going in a hurry. One was a 90 minute flight between Seattle and Phoenix--covering approx 1000 miles during that time due to high tailwinds. Another was between Phoenix and Atlanta--from wheels up to touchdown the flight was two hours, fifty nine minutes. I used to hate arriving into O'Hare early since gate space was so tight there, we'd end up in the "penalty box". I guess in that situation, it's "Do not exceed 0 knots" :)-John

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First of all it's not a myth...ROFL....it's the rule. Unless ATC tells you otherwise or for the safety of the flight.I'd also be surprised of they were still on the tower freq at 10 thousand feet. Then again, it's been a while since I've actually used the facilities at LAX.Edit: never mind I see that you guys were metaphorically speaking. You can say the same about left hand traffic.I should have also added the phrase 'as published' as well.

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but this was the airplanes contacting departure right after tower. for example "united 333 radar contact, climb and maintain 13 thousand. do not exceed 280 knots"the airplanes are at about 1-2k feet at this time. does that do not exceed xxx knots mean there is no 250 knot speed restriction?

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> And I have been on commercial>flights below 10,000 feet where we've been able to kick it up>a notch and fly faster than 250kts. >>-JohnI am assuming you are witnessing this as a passenger on a commercial flight. How did you know you were exceeding 250kts?

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Speaking of advanced coordination; I was amazed last year when flying out of DEN that they were handing aircraft off to the tower freq when they were barely out of the gate. DEN was one busy son of gun.Ground would give you your taxi instructions and tell you to contact the tower and that was that. Talk about getting the aircraft off your books...lol.The takeoffs were pretty close as well. As planes were rotating they were giving the next guy his takeoff clearence.

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>but this was the airplanes contacting departure right after>tower. >>for example >>"united 333 radar contact, climb and maintain 13 thousand. do>not exceed 280 knots">>the airplanes are at about 1-2k feet at this time. does that>do not exceed xxx knots mean there is no 250 knot speed>restriction?No, it does not. The assigned altitude of 13,000 is above 10,000, which means United 333 could have accelerated to any airspeed less than Mach 1.0 the moment it broke 10,000. To preempt United 333 from doing anything the departure controller does not want to see in his sequence of blips leaving LAX, he can give United 333 a speed restriction, such as 280kts, at anytime, even if United 333 is currently below 10,000 where there is a more restrictive 250kt limit. The only way United 333 could have exceeded 250kts below 10,000 is if he the controller specifically stated "no speed limit below 10,000."

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the 13 thousand was just an example, so unless you hear no speed limit there is always a speed limit?

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If you are going faster than 250 kts below 10,000 feet and it can be proven, you WILL get violated. Its a hard rule and in 16 years doing this I have NEVER seen atc allow it. Restricting speed happens when we run into spacing problems due to diferent type aircraft climbing at different speeds. The restriction is for when you accelerate above 10,000. Most airliner types accel to anywhere between 300-330kts IAS on climb above 10,000. Sometimes the smaller regional jets slow us down and we get the restrictions on the climb. Occasionally we stay slow (below about 280-290 KIAS) if there is chop around as its a better ride and most aircraft have limitations when encountering turbulence so sometimes that is the reason.Hornit

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Good explination Jim and Kevin. I sort of got off on tangent there. I too have never heard a controller issue a higher speed then 250 IAS when at or below 10K. It sounds like in the above controller's phrase, he's trying to make the workload a bit easier for the next guy. It's just something when flying you understand what's going on while in the 'heat of things' so to speak. In other words; the 250 restriction still applies in addition to the 280 controller restriction while climbing from 10K to 13K. I think the general rule of thumb is you can't take away from the rule but you can add to it. :-)

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so you've never seen it allowed, does that mean it isn't allowed? if you ever become pilot of a heavy jet, especially a 747, then you might change your tune.ive heard it all the time, from pilots on various forums, in dvds i own, and in ATCs speaking on my scanner

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even if the directions were climb and maintain 7 thousand, do not exceed 2-8-zero knots?

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If you hear a controller issue that instruction, then you'd better ask him to repeat it, seriously.

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