Why self driving cars will eventually be banned

[birdguy 3,943]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Are you?

It's a moot question for me.  It will be a decade or more before it comes to pass.  I will either be dead or at 97 unable to drive anymore.

Noel

[birdguy 3,943]

I'm  not against autonomous vehicles for those who want or need them.  I against foisting them on those who don't want them and prefer driving themselves.

Noel

[WingZ 547]

Generally progress doesn't "foist", it just becomes the norm.
As soon as it's easier cheaper or just more obvious, people will adopt the new tech as a matter of course.
You can still ride a horse in most places, but most people choose not to do it in downtown rush-hour traffic.

It's the transition to the new tech that needs proper management is all. The worst scenario is making a human responsible for looking after potential autonomy failures. Perhaps the quickest way to implement full autonomy will be to grade-separate it from old-style traffic. 

[martin-w 3,238]

1 hour ago, HiFlyer said:

 

There are clearly many people who would benefit, and absolutely intend to benefit by releasing this new technology. Trade magazines flood us with feel good articles trumpeting the "manifest" inevitability of the upcoming driverless revolution, while mentally counting the billions in profit they anticipate if they can edge us into acceptance.

 

 

I don't really care about anybody making loads of dosh if millions of lives are saved to be honest. The guy that invented cats eyes made millions... awesome, good for him, he saved lives. 

That seems to be the point that many against this technology are ignoring, the fact that over a period of time countless millions of lives can be saved. 

And as I previously said...

 

Quote

I think for quite a few years to come we will see autonomous vehicles with a manual mode for those who wish to take control. But I see it in the medium terms working very much like "flight envelope protection" we see in fly by wire aircraft. By that I mean that in manual mode, while you are having fun driving manually, the systems on board are monitoring what you are doing, and if you are about to kill yourself, wreck the vehicle or kill a pedestrian in intervenes. Would that satisfy you enthusiasts?

 

So I don't really see what all the panic from you "enthusiast drivers" is all about. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,238]

48 minutes ago, birdguy said:

I'm  not against autonomous vehicles for those who want or need them.  I against foisting them on those who don't want them and prefer driving themselves.

Noel

 

Then you will like the  prediction I made earlier and feel very much at ease...

 

"I think for quite a few years to come we will see autonomous vehicles with a manual mode for those who wish to take control. But I see it in the medium terms working very much like "flight envelope protection" we see in fly by wire aircraft. By that I mean that in manual mode, while you are having fun driving manually, the systems on board are monitoring what you are doing, and if you are about to kill yourself, wreck the vehicle or kill a pedestrian in intervenes. Would that satisfy you enthusiasts?"

[birdguy 3,943]

 

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

US fatal deaths from guns per year about 40,000 (out of population of guns estimated at 400 Million more than one gun per US resident)

I am a gun owner.  Presently I only own a single handgun.  I used to own a small caliber rifle, and large bore rifle, a shotgun, and a target pistol.  I enjoyed hunting and target shooting.

I would not like to see those activities go away in the name of gun control.  But I do think limiting the number and types of guns a person can own and rationing ammunition to a reasonable amount per weapon, limiting the size of magazines, and outlawing military style weapons would go a long way in reducing gun deaths.

I have been a gun owner since I was about 12 years old.  In both the Marine Corps and the in Air Force I was a competitive shooter on rifle teams.

Noel 

[HiFlyer 9,362]

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Were lives on the line with those gadgets you had failures with?  You're extrapolating that because you've had failures with some technology that all technology is not to be trusted.  I'll disagree with your conclusion.

Even the most expensive, tested, regulated and important tech can and does fail eventually. I extrapolate that both up and down the scale as a simple fact.

So whether or not a person decides to trust that technology or not is to me, a basic human choice.

For myself, the phrase human choice defines the issue. When we not only hand over our choices to machines, but make handing over such choices mandatory, to the point of even removing the very possibility of human intervention....

(No brakes, no steering wheel)

Then I immediately start thinking of those fat, helpless passengers in Wall-E: 🤔

I find myself fairly dubious as to the potential outcome of all this

 

[CYXR 257]

9 hours ago, martin-w said:

So if human beings are garbage at driving safely, and near future automation looks like its going to be responsible for far fewer fatalities... isnt that a good thing?

In absolute terms, yes, 1.3 M fatalities sounds terrible. But out of how many billions of trips per year? If you  want to make your point you should point out that non-fatal car crashes are way more frequent and more costly than fatal one`s. Yet, the automobile insurance industry isn`t convinced that automation is a  solution. Otherwise, it`s lobbyists would have already persuated legislators to make it mandatory.

Edited December 21, 2020 by CYXR

[birdguy 3,943]

Good morning ladies and gentlemen.  Welcome aboard the first fully automated Greyhound Bus trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles.  You will notice there is no driver in the driver's seat.  But don't worry, the computer and automated controls are actually better than a driver.

We have just departed the San Francisco Greyhound Bus Terminal and will shortly be crossing the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge on our way to Interstate Highway 5 which will take us to Los Angeles via Modesto, Fresno and Bakersfield.

Sit back and relax.  Just enjoy your trip confident that nothing can go wrong...nothing can go wrong...nothing can go wrong...nothing can go wrong.…….

Noel

Edited December 21, 2020 by birdguy
Removed the driver.

[martin-w 3,238]

12 hours ago, CYXR said:

In absolute terms, yes, 1.3 M fatalities sounds terrible. But out of how many billions of trips per year? If you  want to make your point you should point out that non-fatal car crashes are way more frequent and more costly than fatal one`s. 

 

That point is irrelevent though isnt it? It doesn't matter if there are 500 trillion non fatal trips, if we can save over a million lives a year its a beneficial technology. You don't "not bother" to implement a life saving technology that saves MILLIONS of lives just because more trips take place safely.

 

[martin-w 3,238]

12 hours ago, CYXR said:

 If you  want to make your point you should point out that non-fatal car crashes are way more frequent and more costly than fatal one`s. 

 

Obviously non fatal but injurious and property damaging accidents would be reduced too.

Edited December 22, 2020 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,238]

12 hours ago, CYXR said:

 Yet, the automobile insurance industry isn`t convinced that automation is a  solution. Otherwise, it`s lobbyists would have already persuated legislators to make it mandatory.

 

Of course they wouldn't have "already" persuaded legislators to make it mandatory. The technology for fully autonomous vehicles with no human monitoring required isn't here yet. A human is currently required to monitor the system and frequently take over at various points in the trip.

Come back when the technology is in its final phase of development.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

This is the #1 reason why I will never be interested on a Self Driving Car, because I prefer to live in places like this:

[martin-w 3,238]

This says it all really...

 

• Fewer Crashes: According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, more than 35,000 lives were lost on U.S. highways in 2015. In addition, the economic and societal costs of collisions are a staggering $836 billion per year. Studies estimate more than 94 percent of all collisions are the result of human error, and autonomous vehicles could potentially eliminate most crashes by managing the hazards of driving better than most people. A computerized car can react faster than a human, and doesn’t get distracted or tired, talk or text on a cell phone or suffer road rage.
• Better Traffic Flow: Autonomous cars communicating with one another could manage the overall pace of traffic to maintain an even flow regardless of the volume of cars. No more stops and starts, freeway “parking lots” or extended delays.
• Improved Fuel Economy: Shorter commute times and reduced braking and acceleration thanks to better traffic management equals less fuel used. In addition, an autonomous vehicle connected to the infrastructure would know where the nearest open parking space is – so no more time and gas spent circling the block repeatedly waiting for a spot to open up.
• Road Use Efficiency: Autonomous vehicles will support more widespread use of car sharing, reducing the total number of vehicles on the road. Self-driving vehicles can also operate with less space between cars than is needed to allow for human driver reaction times. As a result, more vehicles can be accommodated on each mile of roadway, and could help identify specific areas for additional infrastructure.

https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/automotive-trends/autonomous-vehicles/#.X-HGEmmnyDY

[martin-w 3,238]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

This is the #1 reason why I will never be interested on a Self Driving Car, because I prefer to live in places like this:

 

How is that relevant, you can still drive a self driving car. And for quite a few years after widespread implementation, I see a manual mode being fully available. I predict with the systems on board monitoring your driving, ready to intervene if you are about to kill yourself or others.