4 hours ago, F737NG said:

the reason the Brits didn't produce computers

It was a joke...

Noel

22 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

How is that relevant, you can still drive a self driving car. And for quite a few years after widespread implementation, I see a manual mode being fully available. I predict with the systems on board monitoring your driving, ready to intervene if you are about to kill yourself or others.

As of this point none of the EV concepts have included the concept of driving a car, all of the concepts are about having the EV drive you, or the EV make driving easier for you. This is the #1 reason why I am not interested in them.

Yes you could make an EV enjoyable, however as of today none of the car manufacturers have come up with an EV Manual Transmission, and yes it can be done. With an Electric Motor and a microchip and gearing anything is possible, the variations are limitless, you can even recreate the downshifting by programming regeneration on the EV motor to create a resistance to give the car a downshift feel similar to a gas motor, all things I would totally buy in to. Unfortunately no one has this sort of concept and are for the most part resistant to it, as they prefer the concept of having the EV simplify the chore of driving.

For me I will continue to buy 10 year old cars with 4 cylinders and 5 speed manual transmissions and keep them going for another 10 years, as I have always done since I was a teenager. I am now 50 years old and this is the concept that works best for me.  Also good for the environment to keep aging cars new life over extended periods of time as you reduce the demands on producing new ones. And I love the feel of 5 speed manuals and working on them to keep them going

Edit: I will add if any of the car makers do end up making an EV with a manual transmission and regenerative downshifting that would most likely be Honda. They also did produce a Hybrid with a Manual Transmission, therefore they are the most likely to explore this concept as well, at some point.

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Matthew Kane

2 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

As of this point none of the EV concepts have included the concept of driving a car, all of the concepts are about having the EV drive you, or the EV make driving easier for you. This is the #1 reason why I am not interested in them.

 

 

Well no, not really. Electric cars are famous for being fun to drive. Due to the battery pack they have a very low centre of gravity and corner and handle great. Acceleration of course is thrilling, out accelerating some super cars. "Having the car drive you" Is just one feature you can choose to pay for. You have full manual control and I've seen no suggestion that the top EV manufacturers are taking that away.

 

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Yes you could make an EV enjoyable, however as of today none of the car manufacturers have come up with an EV Manual Transmission, and yes it can be done.

 

This notion, that a car can only be "fun to drive" if you have to change gear manually, is one I don't subscribe to. And of course, not changing gear, is not new, automatic transmissions have been around for  a very long time. In fact I recall that most cars in the US are automatic. I don't hear people complaining and throwing their arms in the air because there are numerous IC powered cars in the world that are automatic, and that it will somehow spell doom for "automotive enjoyment".

The vast majority of people own and drive cars to get from a to b. If an individual is a so called "motoring enthusiast"  and feels like stepping into the 21st century... there are indeed a plethora of sporty, fun to drive, exciting electric vehicles. All of the aforementioned doesn't just revolve around a "gear knob". 

 

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Unfortunately no one has this sort of concept and are for the most part resistant to it, as they prefer the concept of having the EV simplify the chore of driving.

 

The major manufactures of EV's don't because its totally pointless. The huge amount of torque across the rev range, means that a gear box isn't required and pointless dead weight. However... there are plenty of companies around who convert classic IC cars into EV's, and they frequently retain the gearbox. 

And here's the thing.... if the day comes when IC cars are banned completely, and individuals like you are upset because you don't have a gear knob to play with, and the demand is sufficient, then I'm sure a major EV manufacturer will recognize the demand and give you one. 

 

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For me I will continue to buy 10 year old cars with 4 cylinders and 5 speed manual transmissions and keep them going for another 10 years, as I have always done since I was a teenager. I am now 50 years old and this is the concept that works best for me.  Also good for the environment to keep aging cars new life over extended periods of time as you reduce the demands on producing new ones. And I love the feel of 5 speed manuals and working on them to keep them going

 

Kind of good for the environment, but you are still belching out pollutants and green house gasses. And a ten year old car is more likely to be depositing particulates into the environment.

 

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Edit: I will add if any of the car makers do end up making an EV with a manual transmission and regenerative downshifting that would most likely be Honda. They also did produce a Hybrid with a Manual Transmission, therefore they are the most likely to explore this concept as well, at some point.

 

As I said... it depends on demand. If the demand is there it will be done. In the meantime, you have lots of classic cars that have been converted into EV's with the gearbox retained.

 

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/5-best-classic-cars-convert-electric-ev/

Classic Car EV conversions are going to become the norm over the next five years. This is an underserved segment that will soon be serviced by new startups.

 

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-case-for-classic-car-ev-conversions-M-t-Ucz-SnaZkHIVtaa32A?iid=RGQyc9sjRhawvPlMNR473w

https://retro-electric.uk/

Classic car EV conversion is becoming a big deal. 

 

Edit: Aplogies, forgot to mention, The Porch Taycan has a gearbox. 

this company makes 4 speed transmissions for EV's.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/emobility/4-speed-ev.html

There are also plenty of 2 speed gearboxes for EV's. 

 

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Well no, not really.

 

Still not interested, also as I forgot to mention, as I do live on a island in the South Pacific and on top of a major fault line, and we do get volcanos, we never let our gas tanks go below a half tank, we fill them up at half tank and keep them up, also store gas on our property as part of our earthquake kit. In a natural disaster and EV is the worst thing you could ever own, no infrastructure means no EV cars. Petrol can still be stored and distributed in a natural disaster. If I have to get my kids to hospital following an earthquake an EV is the worst thing you could depend on.

34 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

 

Still not interested, also as I forgot to mention, as I do live on a island in the South Pacific and on top of a major fault line, and we do get volcanos, we never let our gas tanks go below a half tank, we fill them up at half tank and keep them up, also store gas on our property as part of our earthquake kit. 

 

 

Then keep your EV half charged too. And get battery back up and store your electrons too. 

 

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In a natural disaster and EV is the worst thing you could ever own, no infrastructure means no EV cars.

 

Unless you have solar panels of your roof. 😉 And battery back up. 

 

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Petrol can still be stored and distributed in a natural disaster. If I have to get my kids to hospital following an earthquake an EV is the worst thing you could depend on.

 

Not if you keep it half charged like your petrol tank half full and have battery back up and solar panels. 

And of course, if its a protracted natural disaster your petrol runs out too. And of course, if the electricity goes out then pumps at petrol stations don't work either. 

But if you are still worried, get a cheap IC car as emergency backup. 

😁

Excuses, excuses excuses. 

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

And of course, if the electricity goes out then pumps at petrol stations don't work either. 

I recall, as a boy, manual gasoline pumps.  The top of the pump was a glass reservoir calibrated in gallons.  You worked the pump handle until the reservoir was filled with the amount of gasoline you wanted buy.  Then you put the hose into your filler tube and the gasoline was gravity fed into your car's gas tank.

 

"Why self driving cars will eventually be banned"

Maybe the gobment will come and require something like Cadillac Super Cruise face / eye tracking   starts at 3:40

 

 

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Then keep your EV half charged too. And get battery back up and store your electrons too. 

 

 

Unless you have solar panels of your roof. 😉 And battery back up. 

 

 

Not if you keep it half charged like your petrol tank half full and have battery back up and solar panels. 

And of course, if its a protracted natural disaster your petrol runs out too. And of course, if the electricity goes out then pumps at petrol stations don't work either. 

But if you are still worried, get a cheap IC car as emergency backup. 

😁

Excuses, excuses excuses. 

Petrol can be stored for years, batteries can only hold a charge for days

No guarantee solar panels will survive an earthquake either, I guess you've never seen how they bring houses and buildings down

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Matthew Kane

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Electricity can be produced from multiple sources, fuel can not ... it’s a finite energy source on this planet.

I don't remember who it was specifically, but I heard on the news that one of the appointed clowns in the EPA actually believed that petroleum was a renewable resource! <Thud!>

14 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Petrol can be stored for years, batteries can only hold a charge for days

No guarantee solar panels will survive an earthquake either, I guess you've never seen how they bring houses and buildings down

 

Nope. Lithium Ion batteries store a charge for greater than a year. Usually lose just a few percent of their charge per month.

You are taking this a bit too personel. What you do isn't relevent. Its what the majority of the world does thats important.

I think regardless of whether we need self-driving cars or not, in the end what sells best will prevail, not what is best for us!

1 hour ago, Andiroto said:

not what is best for us!

Who determines what's best for us?  Big Brother?  The Collective?  Government?  You?

Noel

I hope you! But hand on heart, do we always buy what we really need? Or also often what is cheaper or more convenient than what might be better in terms of quality or sustainability? I think there are better alternatives for self-driving cars such as taxis, buses or organized community car pools! The number of vehicles is reduced and people even have jobs!

Suppose I want to go hiking in the Sacramento Mountains which is about 70 miles from Roswell.  There is no bus service.  The cost of a Taxi would be prohibitive.  I doubt an organized community car pool would let me have a car for two days.  My only choices would be a personal vehicle or give up hiking.

Noel

 

Dont know how old you are but biking instead of hiking...?