No Smoking Signs - when were they used?

[Paul Deluca 170]

6 hours ago, HighBypass said:

This topic reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my daughter's friends. He knew I was into aviation and flight sims. He mentioned about wanting to go on holiday somewhere far away from the UK which would involve at least a 12 hour flight (I forget his preferred destination). He said he's not keen on flying and would have to be drunk to calm his nerves prior to getting on the plane. I reminded him that airlines can refuse to allow boarding if they believe that the passenger is too drunk. "Oh well I'll have to have a "fag" or two during the flight". This young lad had such a camp way of speaking and gesturing - he definitely knew from experience the other meaning of the term "fag" apart from a cigarette . Not all gay men express themselves in such a manner; some do and he was one of them 🍻 No harm, no pack drill and we all got along like the proverbial house on fire, so don't get all 2020 offended on his behalf! Thank you.

You should have seen the drama written on his face when I told him that he wouldn't be able to smoke either.  "Oh, I'll just sneak one in the toilet then".

Err. no... The toilets have smoke detectors and should you set one of, then you're in big trouble. The plane will no doubt divert to the nearest suitable airport rather than carry on to your destination. Yes the Captain has the authority to do exactly that.. the authorities will bundle you off the plane AND you will incur the wrath of every other passenger on your long haul flight - so 300+ angry people to deal with...

He asked if I could fly him there instead! 

Good times!

Thanks for clearing the floor Mark regarding the term " fags." Brits such as yourself understand where i'm coming from  .I mentioned lighting a fag was a cigarette for those who don't know 60's slang.The song Well Respected Man by The Kinks mentions HE LIKES HIS FAGS THE BEST.!!!!By the way i still smoke!!! Thanks  Mark.

[Gavin 99]

16 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

 

I am no longer a smoker but if I did find myself on an airliner somewhere in the world today that allowed smoking, I would do it for old times sake.

 

Same here. For nostalgia's sake. 🙂

[Twenty6 694]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:52 AM, dolbinau said:

Sorry not sure where else to post but for anyone that has enough life experience to actually have been around when we smoked on aircraft as part of normality, when exactly would the No Smoking Sign be turned on/off, and would this be at different times to the Seatbelt sign or would they pretty much be used at the same time?

Thanks

I remember times when being offered either a bag of peanuts or small pack of cigarettes. 4 or 5 in the pack and it might have had the airline name on it.

[dolbinau 72]

20 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

even have publicly run “safe” injection or drug use sites. What the heck is the world coming to? 😂😂

The purpose of these sites are to not to encourage drug use but to reduce harm outcomes of drug use such as HIV or other blood-borne disease transmission, reduce needle stick contamination in public areas, provide education/advice/support for people who have a problem, provide emergency support in the case of an overdose, and just plain old stopping junkies injecting themselves in public places. I understand there are concerns about the cost & efficacy of this, but there is of course a lot of complexity, research & goodwill that goes into these kinds of things that in my opinion 'what is the world coming to' does not capture. 

Thanks all for the interesting discussion!

Edited December 31, 2020 by dolbinau

[Reader 2,037]

4 hours ago, dolbinau said:

'what is the world coming to' does not capture. 

I couldn't agree more. At the risk of a sweeping generalisation, such remarks often reveal that the author has no personal experience of the subject in question and is applying a stereotype to it. There are those who would also be horrified at legal and controlled prostitution but the case for that is equally strong, as it looks after the welfare of both the suppliers and receivers and helps minimise the opportunity for unscrupulous abuse. Both prostitution and drug and alcohol use are as old as the human race and will continue in the face of all attempts to interfere. There are therefore those who seek to protect the users of both, even from themselves and this is one way to do that. It's absolutely clear that "prohibition" does not work at all, as proved by history. It's not so far from the subject of the topic, we have all seen governments do their best to stop us smoking, for our own good of course.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Reader

[Paul Deluca 170]

On 12/31/2020 at 7:51 AM, Twenty6 said:

I remember times when being offered either a bag of peanuts or small pack of cigarettes. 4 or 5 in the pack and it might have had the airline name on it.

Hello Jay: I have one of those little bars of soap the airlines gave out years ago  TWA!!!

[Chock 17,769]

13 minutes ago, Paul Deluca said:

Hello Jay: I have one of those little bars of soap the airlines gave out years ago  TWA!!!

I actually found a TWA tag on the ground in the cargo area at EGCC last year in remarkably good condition and remember thinking two things: Gawd almighty how long has that been there? and, Whoever printed that thing has got one hell of a durable printing process!

All airports have some gear lying around with old logos on them, but that thing must have been there out in the open being rained on and bleached by the sun etc, for nearly eighteen years!

[Paul Deluca 170]

Cool Alan. I was watching a video regarding  the old days of flying in jets with the heavy black smoke just now. Ahh the good old days of jet-a lol!!!!!

Edited January 2, 2021 by Paul Deluca

[Paul Deluca 170]

24 minutes ago, Chock said:

I actually found a TWA tag on the ground in the cargo area at EGCC last year in remarkably good condition and remember thinking two things: Gawd almighty how long has that been there? and, Whoever printed that thing has got one hell of a durable printing process!

All airports have some gear lying around with old logos on them, but that thing must have been there out in the open being rained on and bleached by the sun etc, for nearly eighteen years!

Just saw your episode 11 video  great!!!!By the way, i'm into vintage keyboards used in british bands. Vox, Hohner.

[HighBypass 2,339]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:40 AM, Chock said:

I actually found a TWA tag on the ground in the cargo area at EGCC last year in remarkably good condition

Is there any chance it might have turned up because someone visited the TWA hotel at JFK? A retro reproduction?

https://www.twahotel.com/

[Antipodeslonghaul 80]

1997 is the last time I remember smoking on a plane. It was an Alitalia 747 (probably 200, definitely not 400). FCO-MXP-NRT. Passengers continuing to NRT were asked to stay on board at MXP, and if I remember correctly, we were told it was okay to smoke before the fuel truck arrived. So for about 20 minutes after arriving at the gate, we could smoke, both lights were off. Then the no smoking signs came on and we were told to put out our cigarettes. The seatblet signs stayed off. And then later when the Milano passengers had boarded, the seatbelt signs came on as well. I'm pretty sure they both came back off simultaneously 20 minutes or so after takeoff. What I don't remember is when there was turbulence somewhere over Siberia and the seatbelt signs came on, whether the no smoking signs came on as well. I'm pretty sure they must have. I also vaguely remember on some flights around that era, the no smoking signs being turned off perhaps 5 minutes after takeoff so you could already start smoking, but the seatbelt signs still stayed on maybe 5 or 10 minutes longer. But that's more of a vague memory (smoking affecting the brain cells). Or way back in the day, did the no smoking signs maybe even come off the moment the gear was retracted right after takeoff?

Incidentally, some other things I remeber about that trip. The entire itinerary was FRA-FCO-MXP-NRT and return. My travel agent said it was the cheapest flight to Tokyo except Biman Bangladesh via Dhaka (probably a DC-10 back then). But the agent recommended the Alitalia flight. On the return segment, the arrival in Rome would be in the evening, and the MD-80 flight back to Frankfurt wouldn't leave until the next morning. I was assured a hotel would be provided in Rome, the airline would be obligated to provide it. I said I wasn't so sure that would be the case, but the agent said "No really! Just go to any Alitalia transit desk after you land in Rome, show them your ticket, and they'll provide you with a hotel, guaranteed!" 

Sure enough, no hotels! Scoffed at and laughed at by the Alitalia agents. "You wanna a hotel, you go and a get a one yourself!"

So, this was probably a big motivation for me to start booking my own flights online a short time after, making my own arrangements. Although I may add, I still find it comforting to this day to walk through town and peer through the windows of old fashioned travel agents with their stacks of catalogs and posters of Mount Fuji and beaches with palm trees on the walls.

1999 is the last time I clearly remember going to a physical travel agent. 2003 I remember buying a ticket online, but the ticket itself was still the old fashioned rectangular ticket, about the size of a boarding pass, with strange carbon copy type paper in the back, and it came by envelope in the regular mail, maybe about a week after purchasing it online. And I think 2004, the first time I took an Emirates flight, was maybe the first time I just bought the ticket online, printed out the itinerary, but only showed my passport at a check in counter and was given a boarding pass.

Okay, way off topic, but finally, the last leg of that Alitalia flight in 1997, FCO-FRA on an MD-80, I aksed if I could visit the cockpit. The captain invited me in and on top of that invited me to ride in the jump seat. Unthinkable today, it was already completely unthinkable for me back then. No suspicion, just pure friendliness. Two very amicable and talkative pilots, more than made up for any discomforts the night before. So, 1997 also happened to be the last time I ever visited the flight deck in-flight as a passenger.

[Antipodeslonghaul 80]

Thanks OP for having started this topic 😉 I'm craving a cigarette now more than I have been in the last 20 years since I quit. Somehow all the snow outside and being cozy and warm inside makes me want to smoke. Go figure during a widespread severe respiratory illness outbreak.

Anyway, I still thought about this topic a few times recently. Obviously we can't remember every little detail from the distant past or our heads might explode. But I'll go out on a limb here and say there were some airlines in the past that tried to give you the maximum smoking time possible. I remember a Lufthansa 747-400 flight from FRA to SFO where I sat in the smoking section because it was the only window seat left. It must have been about 1993. I remember right after takeoff the guy in front of me fully reclining his seat, stretching his one hand with his hairy knuckles out behind him right into my face, and using his other hand to smoke a cigarette. I remember being a little annoyed.

If I understand correctly, for example in the PMDG 747 QOTS, if you leave the switches for the signs in the auto position, the no smoking signs will turn off once the gear is fully retracted, and come back on the moment you activate the gear extension. The seatbelt signs will come off and back on again going through 10,000 feet indicated altitude each way. So on some flights, if say ATC held you at 8,000 for a few minutes on departure, you might have smoked for quite a bit before later on unfastening your seatbelt to go to the loo.

In the last couple of years I saw some pretty big differences in seatbelt sign use. On some Mainland Chinese carriers, even on a 12 hour flight, the seatbelt sign basically was never turned off. It was understood you should keep it fastened while seated, but if there was little or no turbulence, it was fine to get up pretty much any time. 

On this one KLM 787 flight I remember on descent the seatbelt signs didn't come on until we were very close to landing, it felt very unusual. I think the flaps were already partially extended, probably already below 10,000 feet. So occasionally there are some pretty big differences in seatbelt sign use in the modern era, it may have been so with the no smoking signs back then too.

Oh BTW, 1997, my last smoking on a plane year, I think was also the first time I had a seatback entertainment screen, on Singapore Airlines, a 747-400 from FRA-JFK, a very nice flight with maybe the best economy class food I've ever had. Probably it was also a completely nonsmoking flight.

[lostrealist 0]

On 12/31/2020 at 3:53 AM, cmpbellsjc said:

Unfortunately the trend for weed usage has sky rocketed amoung the younger generation and minority groups. When you add the fact that these groups are becoming less educated than generations of the past and wrapped up in the weed smoking, it doesn’t bode well for their futures. It’s great for creating a welfare state but not great for a lost generation of young people who spent their youth getting high, have virtually no education and will spend their life working minimum wage jobs and/or on welfare programs. 

 

I regret to inform you that at least the part of this that is not entirely speculative and mostly opinion is not correct. Marijuana usage outside of medical applications has dropped significantly since the 1990's and many legislations that have legalized recreational use are seeing a further decline especially in younger cohorts.

And I'm sorry to say it but not everything they told you about the stuff in Reefer Madness is accurate either. Do not get me started on how many lives it has wrecked versus how many lives have been wrecked by the very same cold alcoholic beverages we allow ourselves after a long day at work. You're dismissing a group of people who do not share your lifestyle as a bunch of lazy, stupid welfare cases.

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

22 hours ago, lostrealist said:

 

I regret to inform you that at least the part of this that is not entirely speculative and mostly opinion is not correct. Marijuana usage outside of medical applications has dropped significantly since the 1990's and many legislations that have legalized recreational use are seeing a further decline especially in younger cohorts.

Not according to more recent articles below, some state that it’s at the highest rate in 30 years and younger kids in high school are getting more involved with it.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/11/11/us/marijuana-use-rising-adults-trnd/index.html

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-scope-marijuana-use-in-united-states

https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/9/E44

That being said, you can probably find articles or studies to fit any narrative, good or bad about marijuana use.

My previous comments were actually not based on any article however. I work in a industry and get sales data from wholesalers and manufacturers who sell stuff that is used for smoking weed like the cheap 99c cigars that people put weed in, rolling papers, cones, etc. That industry has been on a steady rise the past 7 years that I’ve been analyzing the sales data on. It tells me that either more people are getting into weed smoking, or the ones who are currently users are becoming heavier users.

Not to mention that fact that the region I live in has more and more smoke shops/head shops opening up and my state doesn’t even have legal recreational use. I can’t even go into a gas station/c-store without witnessing some young guy 18-30 buying papers, cones or 99c cigars to go roll one, and the selection of goods is very wide.

 

22 hours ago, lostrealist said:

And I'm sorry to say it but not everything they told you about the stuff in Reefer Madness is accurate either. Do not get me started on how many lives it has wrecked versus how many lives have been wrecked by the very same cold alcoholic beverages we allow ourselves after a long day at work. You're dismissing a group of people who do not share your lifestyle as a bunch of lazy, stupid welfare cases.

I don’t know what Reefer Madness is, magazine?

As you’ve probably guessed I’m not a marijuana user, smoker or drinker. Heck, I’ve never even tried a cigarette or cigar and rarlely have a beer or cocktail.

I agree, there are a lot of substances out there that can wreck peoples lives and those of others like booze, hard drugs or any combination of them. 

I personally am not against people using drugs, getting high, or doing whatever they want, as long as they don’t involve me in a negative way or become a public charge at the tax payers expense. If people want to live in a drug den, get “baked” 24/7 and smell like a skunk, more power to them.

The thing that I am opposed to though, is the younger kids in JR High and High School getting into it. I think a lot of it comes from the younger kids wanting to be part of the hip hop crowd or live the Thug Life. So much of the music now references weed, blunts, etc and it’s easy to see how kids want to emulate it. 

When I was a kid growing up (not even that long ago) even into my high school years, it was so rare to even see or hear about other kids in my age group smoke weed, much less talking about weed. The worst thing you’d see at a party was some beer or Jack Daniels. Kids didn’t have weed, coke or meth like they do now, and back then we’d be scared to get caught in possession of alcohol or a cigarette because we knew we’d get in trouble. Now, teens are embolden and don’t even care if they get caught because most likely nothing will happen, no consequences or punishment.

[Patco Lch 1,486]

When I was a kid in the fifties and sixties, any man that didn't smoke was considered a sissy or preacher and half the preachers lit up. I was weaned on second hand smoke. Most of the teachers had stained fingers and teeth and smelled like soot. In old romance movies you know it's love when they exhale a cloud directly in each other's faces. 

I remember a commercial with a ball player (I think it was Mickey Mantle) expounding on the health benefits of Kools because they contained menthol. Decongestant I suppose.

I'm so glad I gave that filthy habit up four decades ago. Smoke free buildings is one testament to benefit of some government regulations. Tobacco is a scourge.