Working Title CJ4 0.9.0 - Holds, New FM, FD, Dual Comms

[Boeing_Driver 76]

It was to my good fortune, that my company didn't call me out for a flight today, allowing me to experiment with CJ4, and in particular, its unique VNAV mode.

After numerous flights, I've discovered some important details that others may not be aware of.

So, in a perfect world, one could use the APR button to descend from the FAF down to the runway. This does work...sometimes. But it always struck me as odd. In the equipment I fly, one uses APR for an ILS approach, whereas an RNAV approach, one would remain in VNAV mode, all the way down to the runway. What I've discovered, is that this aircraft actually does operate in this mode (somewhat contrary to what I've been told).

The trick, is to enter the last altitude shown on the flightplan page prior to descent, then select VNAV. To be clear, this is NOT the FAF. Just go to the last page of your LEGS page and approximate the altitude (round up or down to the nearest 100').

This works in a number of great ways. For instance, in some cases, FS2020 doesn't have the RNAV approach in the data base when it should (Friday Harbor KFHR for instance). While it's true that you can manually enter the fixes into the FMS, APR mode will not give you any guidance. However, the method I've described above will give you a precision path down to the runway threshold.

What about small airports with no published procedures? The FMS allows you to select a runway and it will provide a 5 NM final for visual approaches. Once again, if you enter the last altitude on the LEGS page, the aircraft will descend, respecting all altitudes in the FMS and land with a 3 degree glidepath to the runway.

Obviously, this doesn't magically create an IAP for an airport, since there may be terrain in the way, but for non mountainous airports, this works like a charm.

[MattNischan 3,778]

1 hour ago, Boeing_Driver said:

So, in a perfect world, one could use the APR button to descend from the FAF down to the runway. This does work...sometimes. But it always struck me as odd. In the equipment I fly, one uses APR for an ILS approach, whereas an RNAV approach, one would remain in VNAV mode, all the way down to the runway. What I've discovered, is that this aircraft actually does operate in this mode (somewhat contrary to what I've been told)

The ProLine 21 VNAV is a fun beast. Just as it is in the real unit, VPATH will take you down to your preselector altitude, up to 50 feet above the runway threshold if you have it set that low. So, you can definitely fly the approach entirely in VNAV if you choose (or if an approach that allows APPR mode (ILS or RNAV) isn't available). However, the one thing to note is that you won't get approach area sensitivity in that mode, so it is less precise. Nav sensitivity (full scale deviation) is 2NM enroute, 1NM in the terminal area (31NM or less from the runway threshold), 0.3NM when 2NM or less from the FAF and in APPR, and angular sensitivity which becomes more sensitive the close you get to the runway while in APPR on a LPV. We model all those and you can see them with the annunciations 'TERM', 'APPR', or 'LPV APPR' on the PFD.

1 hour ago, Boeing_Driver said:

Obviously, this doesn't magically create an IAP for an airport, since there may be terrain in the way, but for non mountainous airports, this works like a charm.

A fun thing to do is to use the user waypoints ability in the FMC to create custom fixes around terrain areas to shoot approaches into spots that may not otherwise have them. It would of course not be an IFR approved procedure, but nonetheless makes for a fun ride!

-Matt

[highflyer2020 607]

12 hours ago, Joe8617 said:

I cannot get the VBAR to change to X-PTR in V.0.9.1 - is anyone else experiencing that or is it me doing something incorrectly?   Thanks.

After you change it hit the "FD" button on the autopilot panel! It gets stuck and that triggers it to change.

[sidfadc 1,344]

Anyway to stop this bird floating on landing?  Even if I kill the power like 150 feet above and come in 10 kts under VREF it still floats halfway down the runway.  The only consistent way I can prevent a float is to hardly flare which means smacking it down on the runway.  

[bendead 1,085]

44 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

Anyway to stop this bird floating on landing?  Even if I kill the power like 150 feet above and come in 10 kts under VREF it still floats halfway down the runway.  The only consistent way I can prevent a float is to hardly flare which means smacking it down on the runway.  

It's a work in progress element, I am sure we will see improvement over the next couple of weeks.

You can take a look there from time to time to track the progress : https://discord.com/channels/750764704175226992/765379847031226419

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

1 hour ago, sidfadc said:

Anyway to stop this bird floating on landing?  Even if I kill the power like 150 feet above and come in 10 kts under VREF it still floats halfway down the runway.  The only consistent way I can prevent a float is to hardly flare which means smacking it down on the runway.  

If you want a challenge go load up the weather for Jackson Hole or Driggs right now and see if you can keep it over the #'s on final 🙂

22Kts right across the runways. First time seeing the plane swing around side-to-side it is pretty amazing!

[Boeing_Driver 76]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:46 PM, MattNischan said:.

A fun thing to do is to use the user waypoints ability in the FMC to create custom fixes around terrain areas to shoot approaches into spots that may not otherwise have them. It would of course not be an IFR approved procedure, but nonetheless makes for a fun ride!

-Matt

I wasn’t aware of this function. Can you point me in the right direction for the correct page in the FMS?

[Boeing_Driver 76]

An interesting quirk I’ve learned with this plane (not sure if it’s true with the other default planes) is that if you enter an airport and it indicates that it is not in the database—simply enter it again, and the airport will show on the flight plan.

[MattNischan 3,778]

15 minutes ago, Boeing_Driver said:

I wasn’t aware of this function. Can you point me in the right direction for the correct page in the FMS?

You can enter user waypoints on the LEGS page in the scratchpad and them drop them onto a LSK to place it. There's a few different possibilities and formats, which we list out in the Operator's Guide. It's a little lengthy to list the formats here, but check that out and let us know if you have any questions. They're reasonably straightforward once you get the gist.

-Matt

[Boeing_Driver 76]

1 hour ago, MattNischan said:

You can enter user waypoints on the LEGS page in the scratchpad and them drop them onto a LSK to place it. There's a few different possibilities and formats, which we list out in the Operator's Guide. It's a little lengthy to list the formats here, but check that out and let us know if you have any questions. They're reasonably straightforward once you get the gist.

-Matt

Thanks for the info. I see that one can enter Lat and Lon as one means of doing it. Do you have a easy method for obtaining those coordinates? In the old sim, you could pause the flight and grab them in the map, but I don't know of a similar method with this sim.

[TexasGary 47]

I want to add my thanks to the Working Title Team for their excellent work on the CJ4.  I did have question that I haven't found answered anywhere yet.  After the Fight Director is activated, how do you deactivate it?  When I click on the FD button again after its activated nothing happens.

 

Thanks.

Gary

[Boeing_Driver 76]

It seems as if when entering data on the PERF page (TAKEOFF & APPROACH), that the FMS doesn't recognize the live weather and only bases it's information on standard pressure of 29.92. That is, say the weather at your departure airport is 30.15, the field elevation will change from the true elevation of the airport to something erroneous.

 

Not sure how important this is...if it's only calculating REF speeds, I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

Anyone have any insight on this?

[cwburnett 1,809]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:32 AM, TexasGary said:

I want to add my thanks to the Working Title Team for their excellent work on the CJ4.  I did have question that I haven't found answered anywhere yet.  After the Fight Director is activated, how do you deactivate it?  When I click on the FD button again after its activated nothing happens.

It will only turn off if the AP is off and no AP modes are currently active. So if AP is off and you see ROLL and PTCH, then you can turn it off.

 

21 minutes ago, Boeing_Driver said:

It seems as if when entering data on the PERF page (TAKEOFF & APPROACH), that the FMS doesn't recognize the live weather and only bases it's information on standard pressure of 29.92. That is, say the weather at your departure airport is 30.15, the field elevation will change from the true elevation of the airport to something erroneous.

 

Not sure how important this is...if it's only calculating REF speeds, I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

Anyone have any insight on this?

Not totally sure I follow, but the perf init pages don't account for any weather automatically. They only provide v-speeds for the data you enter - so you need to enter the winds, temp and pressure, then on the next page, ref speeds will reflect those inputs.

The altitude you see changing when you adjust the pressure is the pressure altitude, not the field elevation.

[TexasGary 47]

cw, thanks.  I had the AP off, but still had some modes active.  When I got it back to just ROLL and PITCH modes the FD did indeed turn off just as you said.

Thanks.

 

[bendead 1,085]

Seems like the changelog was updated to 0.10.0 less than an hour ago :

https://github.com/Working-Title-MSFS-Mods/fspackages/blob/main/docs/workingtitle-cj4/CHANGES.md

We might see a release today 😁