Searching the positives from Sim Update 3

[CFIJose 5,485]

17 hours ago, petabread said:

So is it the sim?

YES it's the sim.

I was going to ignore your question, because I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic like a few clowns around here or you are genuinely trying to help.

If you do a little research on who you are trying to give advice to, you might change your mind before you post.

[Biology 1,347]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

@Car147  Hang in there mate.  I share your frustration.  Don't let the usual crowd shut you up. 
I wonder about their agenda here, especially as they seem to pop up with great regularity in these types of threads, and generally just resort to calling names and trying to shut people up.

Yikes. Literally no one is trying to shut you up, in fact it's pretty much the exact opposite. People who don't have any issues are trying to help by sharing their experience (as just blaming it on the game won't help anyone), and you have been trying to shut them up by not accepting they are not experiencing any issues. Not even mentioning name calling, just see the post above me. Ironically, it's always you and a few other select people who pop up in threads and do this. I'm really so sorry for not having any issues and trying to make your game perform the same.

Edited March 13, 2021 by BiologicalNanobot

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

And again with the people trying to shut out those who are experiencing valid issues. It's like defending the launch state of the installation manager again, when it's been proven that some looping downloads can be caused by the bugged in-game bandwidth limiter, and that some slow download speeds can be attributed to issues with Microsoft's CDN in specific regions. And let's not forget the 1.7.14.0 patch notes, which is Asobo admitting that it did have some major issues at launch. But no, everything is user error.

Most of the updates recently include the note "Fixed various crashes across the title". I'm not saying that none of the CTDs are caused by a conflicting add-on or hardware defect, but as shocking as it is, much of the time it's just the software. What about the last patch, where you would get a CTD every single time when trying to manually cache an area? Is that somehow the user's fault once again?

10 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

I'm playing at Ultra with all settings with both terrain & objects LOD at 200 and LOD always has been bad.

If your Terrain LOD slider is set to 200, the mesh LOD issues are much less exaggerated. Setting it to 100 or lower makes the coastline glitch, terrain morphing and mountain tearing that appeared with World/Sim Update 2 a lot more apparent. The LOD system had a fair share of issues at launch, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now.

[Biology 1,347]

17 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

If your Terrain LOD slider is set to 200, the mesh LOD issues are much less exaggerated. Setting it to 100 or lower makes the coastline glitch, terrain morphing and mountain tearing that appeared with World/Sim Update 2 a lot more apparent. The LOD system had a fair share of issues at launch, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now.

Weirdly enough it was only me who had significant LOD issues at launch. I asked many people and they were satisfied with LOD, while I've always been annoyed by blurries and other issues. As it was only me, I blamed it to my internet connection (it's 50 Mbps) and I started using MSFS a lot less than usual as it was a deal breaker for me. Then these updates happened and everyone started report the same issue, while my experience was more or less the same, even at lower LOD slider values. It's still a deal breaker for me, which is why I more or less gave up on MSFS, blurries and low drawing distance is so distracting for me. Performance has always been good (and it's still good), but it doesn't matter when everything's blurry.

Edited March 13, 2021 by BiologicalNanobot

[bobcat999 8,484]

25 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Yikes. Literally no one is trying to shut you up, in fact it's pretty much the exact opposite. People who don't have any issues are trying to help by sharing their experience (as just blaming it on the game won't help anyone), and you have been trying to shut them up by not accepting they are not experiencing any issues. Not even mentioning name calling, just see the post above me. Ironically, it's always you and a few other select people who pop up in threads and do this. I'm really so sorry for not having any issues and trying to make your game perform the same.

Huh?  What are you on about?  I never included you in any accusations.  It is quite obvious where I was directing my comments (at the drama queens and whingers comments) that have now been dealt with by a moderator.  In the meantime, I am grateful for any help I get of anyone here to make the game or addons perform better. Including you - thanks! 

[Biology 1,347]

11 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

I am grateful for any help I get of anyone here to make the game or addons perform better.

I'm still trying to reproduce with no success, is there a minimum amount of time I need to spend before huge FPS loss to appear? The issue is obviously not on the user as it happens on a completely clean installation, but the fact that not everyone is experiencing these performance losses means the failure mode only happens in certain conditions - maybe a different version of external libraries, drivers or a specific in-game setting.

Given that you have 1080 Ti, we probably use different drivers, so I can't comment on that. What about posting your MSFS settings? There must be a way to reproduce it.

Edited March 13, 2021 by BiologicalNanobot

[bobcat999 8,484]

14 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

I'm still trying to reproduce with no success, is there a minimum amount of time I need to spend before huge FPS loss to appear? The issue is obviously not on the user as it happens on a completely clean installation, but the fact that not everyone is experiencing these performance losses means the failure mode only happens in certain conditions - maybe a different version of external libraries, drivers or a specific in-game setting.

Given that you have 1080 Ti, we probably use different drivers, so I can't comment on that. What about posting your MSFS settings? There must be a way to reproduce it.

Well BN, it definitely seems to be scenery or mesh related and restricted to certain areas.  Also, I just want to say my fps is fine and silky smooth on a locked Vsync 30 from inside the sim - never had it so smooth.  The issue is with pauses that have just recently started happening (I wouldn't even call it stuttering).  At these times, my GPU usage drops to zero (graphed it in the Gigabyte GPU manager) and it seems to be a problems with 'Manipulators'  (Whatever they are )  in the FPS window you can show from Dev mode.  So it's a new one on me.  During the pauses, the fps is about zero - almost a dead stop.  Never had anything like this before.

I can reproduce it flying into Salzburg every time, especially if I do a touch and go and head north-east over the river to the large railway station you can see.  But another test flight I always perform from Sedona to Flagstaff, no pauses whatsoever!

Someone on the official forums is saying it might actually be linked to rivers and water now.  I notice I pass over no rivers on the Sedona to Flagstaff run, but I do in Salzburg, right when I turn north-east...  Interesting!    Something else to investigate.  While this does need fixing by Asobo, at least we might be able to find them some lines of enquiry.

Edited March 13, 2021 by bobcat999

[Biology 1,347]

1 minute ago, bobcat999 said:

I can reproduce it flying into Salzburg every time, especially if I do a touch and go and head north-east over the river to the large railway station you can see.  But another test flight I always perform from Sedona to Flagstaff, no pauses whatsoever!

Someone on the official forums is saying it might actually be linked to rivers and water now.  I notice I pass over no rivers on the Sedona to Flagstaff run, but I do in Salzburg, right when I turn north-east...  Interesting!    Something else to investigate.  While this does need fixing by Asobo, at least we might be able to find them some lines of enquiry.

I've never flown in Salzburg, will give it a try. If I manage to reproduce the issue it should be possible to look at what's wrong using debugging tools.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

21 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Weirdly enough it was only me who had significant LOD issues at launch. I asked many people and they were satisfied with LOD, while I've always been annoyed by blurries and other issues.

If you mean the blurry terrain at higher altitudes, that's always been a problem indeed, and in fact, in an older Developer Q&A (was either September or October), Sebastian claimed that this would be an easy fix without a great performance hit relative to the visual improvement. However, several months later and not only does this issue remain, but we also got several other mesh issues related to level of detail.

The blurry terrain is something that setting Terrain LOD to 200 does not help alleviate a lot, but it pushes the newer mesh issues quite far out, making them less noticeable. As someone that sets Terrain LOD to 25-75 depending on the situation, I believe the recent mesh issues are much, much worse than just the blurry terrain, completely annihilating the scenery in areas with lots of mountains or coastlines.

What is baffling that in the latest Q&A they showed a video where none of these issues exist, and the morphing is much smoother than what the live build suffers from. This gives me hope that they are refactoring the LOD system for the DirectX 12 engine upgrade.

13 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

It is quite obvious where I was directing my comments (at the drama queens and whingers comments) that have now been dealt with by a moderator.

Yep, that's what is going on. Someone makes a thread about the terrain morphing, the coastline issues, the degraded TAA or CTD/performance issues, and then it's always the same people coming in and calling us "drama queens complaining about blades of grass". And then others complain about us making more than one post explaining the problems, when it's those who are insulting around that keep the discussion going. Meanwhile, I do not go into threads that praise Asobo or the simulator to voice my complaints. It's not like the complaining threads cannot be easily ignored for someone who does not like them.

And then we get comments like "fly more, complain less". Not possible to do that when you cannot fly because of constant crashes, looping downloads, or other massive issues that ruin the immersion. Instead it should be "fly more, complain less about those who complain". And also "go back to the old simulators if they were so perfect". Nope, if I were feeling satisfied with the older simulators, I wouldn't be here complaining.

I'm not denying that there are some extreme cases of people calling the simulator utter garbage or an arcade game, and I do not agree with these views either, but constantly insulting those complaining about some of the post-launch and other lingering issues that are taking too long to fix, at least compared to other AAA games with a massive budget, is unacceptable in my opinion.

[HiFlyer 9,361]

I'm guess I'm just harder in general to frustrate about all of this.

For example, I was locked out of the sim for approx two weeks during the beta due to inability to update, and while I found it (mildly) annoying, as I futilely went through all the steps, I was never honestly angry. To me it just seemed fairly predictable that with something this complicated (almost unbelievably so) that there were going to be (numerous) problems and setbacks, and that just as with all sims, they would eventually, one by one, be isolated and fixed.

Or, just like with all our sims, perhaps some issues will stick around for years.

I mean, even after over a decade of development, problems still exist with our current legacy sims, which also were not perfect when released, or even now.

More recently. I was unable to download/access world update 3 for a few days because of a marketplace issue.

Oh well.....

I contacted zendesk, waited a few days, and the issue was resolved. Annoying? Not really. Stuff happens.

I paid money for this too, and like most of us, have encountered issues here and there, but throughout, I just keep in mind that this is probably one of the most complex programs I'm ever likely to encounter, and honestly I'm usually more startled/amazed that it runs as well as it does, than I am that the first attempt at a sim by this formerly gaming-only company is gonna have hella issues in the first year or two.

I also remember all too well all the howling that went on when FSX arrived, and the general negativity and hair-pulling that occurred on the forums then, by people who now feel quite mellow about that sim, and seem to have little to no memory of the initial circus that occured at launch, and for quite some time afterwards.

Or the circus surrounding FLIGHT.

Or the circus around P3D

Or the circus around DTG Sim.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, is an idle wager that in a few years, many here currently calling Asobo clowns (and worse) that don't know what they are doing etc, etc, will be earnestly clutching MSFS to their bosoms and proclaiming it probably the best thing evah' while barely if at all remembering any of this.

Such is flight simming, apparently.

[Car147 2,279]

4 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

If you mean the blurry terrain at higher altitudes, that's always been a problem indeed, and in fact, in an older Developer Q&A (was either September or October), Sebastian claimed that this would be an easy fix without a great performance hit relative to the visual improvement. However, several months later and not only does this issue remain, but we also got several other mesh issues related to level of detail.

The blurry terrain is something that setting Terrain LOD to 200 does not help alleviate a lot, but it pushes the newer mesh issues quite far out, making them less noticeable. As someone that sets Terrain LOD to 25-75 depending on the situation, I believe the recent mesh issues are much, much worse than just the blurry terrain, completely annihilating the scenery in areas with lots of mountains or coastlines.

What is baffling that in the latest Q&A they showed a video where none of these issues exist, and the morphing is much smoother than what the live build suffers from. This gives me hope that they are refactoring the LOD system for the DirectX 12 engine upgrade.

Yep, that's what is going on. Someone makes a thread about the terrain morphing, the coastline issues, the degraded TAA or CTD/performance issues, and then it's always the same people coming in and calling us "drama queens complaining about blades of grass". And then others complain about us making more than one post explaining the problems, when it's those who are insulting around that keep the discussion going. Meanwhile, I do not go into threads that praise Asobo or the simulator to voice my complaints. It's not like the complaining threads cannot be easily ignored for someone who does not like them.

And then we get comments like "fly more, complain less". Not possible to do that when you cannot fly because of constant crashes, looping downloads, or other massive issues that ruin the immersion. Instead it should be "fly more, complain less about those who complain". And also "go back to the old simulators if they were so perfect". Nope, if I were feeling satisfied with the older simulators, I wouldn't be here complaining.

I'm not denying that there are some extreme cases of people calling the simulator utter garbage or an arcade game, and I do not agree with these views either, but constantly insulting those complaining about some of the post-launch and other lingering issues that are taking too long to fix, at least compared to other AAA games with a massive budget, is unacceptable in my opinion.

Nailed it! Thank you.

[devgrp 1,233]

15 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I'm guess I'm just harder in general to frustrate about all of this.

For example, I was locked out of the sim for approx two weeks during the beta due to inability to update, and while I found it (mildly) annoying, as I futilely went through all the steps, I was never honestly angry. To me it just seemed fairly predictable that with something this complicated (almost unbelievably so) that there were going to be (numerous) problems and setbacks, and that just as with all sims, they would eventually, one by one, be isolated and fixed.

Or, just like with all our sims, perhaps some issues will stick around for years.

I mean, even after over a decade of development, problems still exist with our current legacy sims, which also were not perfect when released, or even now.

More recently. I was unable to download/access world update 3 for a few days because of a marketplace issue.

Oh well.....

I contacted zendesk, waited a few days, and the issue was resolved. Annoying? Not really. Stuff happens.

I paid money for this too, and like most of us, have encountered issues here and there, but throughout, I just keep in mind that this is probably one of the most complex programs I'm ever likely to encounter, and honestly I'm usually more startled/amazed that it runs as well as it does, than I am that the first attempt at a sim by this formerly gaming-only company is gonna have hella issues in the first year or two.

I also remember all too well all the howling that went on when FSX arrived, and the general negativity and hair-pulling that occurred on the forums then, by people who now feel quite mellow about that sim, and seem to have little to no memory of the initial circus that occured at launch, and for quite some time afterwards.

Or the circus surrounding FLIGHT.

Or the circus around P3D

Or the circus around DTG Sim.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, is an idle wager that in a few years, many here currently calling Asobo clowns (and worse) that don't know what they are doing etc, etc, will be earnestly clutching MSFS to their bosoms and proclaiming it probably the best thing evah' while barely if at all remembering any of this.

Such is flight simming, apparently.

Most of the people here complaining are probably boombers who's a 100 years  old or more. These guys get grumpy at anything. These are probably some of the same guys that would throw a fit if they saw some kid flying a drone thinking they are being spied on. They go to bed at 6pm and wake up at 4am with nothing else to do but complain. 

[devgrp 1,233]

1 hour ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Weirdly enough it was only me who had significant LOD issues at launch. I asked many people and they were satisfied with LOD, while I've always been annoyed by blurries and other issues. As it was only me, I blamed it to my internet connection (it's 50 Mbps) and I started using MSFS a lot less than usual as it was a deal breaker for me. Then these updates happened and everyone started report the same issue, while my experience was more or less the same, even at lower LOD slider values. It's still a deal breaker for me, which is why I more or less gave up on MSFS, blurries and low drawing distance is so distracting for me. Performance has always been good (and it's still good), but it doesn't matter when everything's blurry.

if you are getting blurries in msfs,  cant imagine how your p3d looks, because thats a blur fest in some areas

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

1 minute ago, devgrp said:

Most of the people here complaining are probably boombers who's a 100 years  old or more. These guys get grumpy at anything. These are probably some of the same guys that would throw a fit if they saw some kid flying a drone thinking they are being spied on. They go to bed at 6pm and wake up at 4am with nothing else to do but complain. 

Thanks for providing an excellent example to my above post. 😄

[devgrp 1,233]

Just now, ChaoticBeauty said:

Thanks for providing an excellent example to my above post. 😄

I'm glad I could help man lol, seriously, some of ya'll take this way too serious lmao