One step forward two steps back

[Lenny777 299]

22 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

Right!,  When they said "We finished it a little early", we should have known that they meant "It is nowhere near finished and won't be for months or years--but you can pay us now"

Are these the circumstances that were known?  Really by whom?

Ridiculous comment.

No it isn't. You fully knew well that they would be updating the scenery, airports, etc.  Anybody with an ounce of sense with a complex sim like this and given the long history of flightsimming updates,refinements etc. knew this would be the case. Sounds like you're not cut out for the long haul.

[Bobsk8 12,735]

1 minute ago, Lenny777 said:

No it isn't. You fully knew well that they would be updating the scenery, airports, etc.  Anybody with an ounce of sense with a complex sim like this and given the long history of flightsimming updates,refinements etc. knew this would be the case. Sounds like you're not cut out for the long haul.

I have downloaded hundreds of updates for different programs over the years. I can't remember updates breaking things to the extent we see now with this program. I beta tested for years, and when we would see a glitch we would report it, and it usually would be fixed rather quickly, and if not the update wouldn't not be published until it was fixed. Sending out updates with imbedded "clinkers" in it, helps nobody. BTW my long hauling with sims began  in the late 80's, so I have been at this for awhile. 

[crimplene 634]

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have downloaded hundreds of updates for different programs over the years. I can't remember updates breaking things to the extent we see now with this program. I beta tested for years, and when we would see a glitch we would report it, and it usually would be fixed rather quickly, and if not the update wouldn't not be published until it was fixed. Sending out updates with imbedded "clinkers" in it, helps nobody. BTW my long hauling with sims began  in the late 80's, so I have been at this for awhile. 

You never tried Nadeo's Maniaplanet Shootmania. I never had a game that was so completely ruined by an update.

[Lenny777 299]

5 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have downloaded hundreds of updates for different programs over the years. I can't remember updates breaking things to the extent we see now with this program. I beta tested for years, and when we would see a glitch we would report it, and it usually would be fixed rather quickly, and if not the update wouldn't not be published until it was fixed. Sending out updates with imbedded "clinkers" in it, helps nobody. BTW my long hauling with sims began  in the late 80's, so I have been at this for awhile. 

We're in a different planet then. This is a complex sim which larger portions were re-written and depends on Azure for a lot of data. Don't think your experiences covers this by a country mile. 

[Lenny777 299]

8 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have downloaded hundreds of updates for different programs over the years. I can't remember updates breaking things to the extent we see now with this program. I beta tested for years, and when we would see a glitch we would report it, and it usually would be fixed rather quickly, and if not the update wouldn't not be published until it was fixed. Sending out updates with imbedded "clinkers" in it, helps nobody. BTW my long hauling with sims began  in the late 80's, so I have been at this for awhile. 

And I've simmed this series since Sublogic days and my C-64. So what's your point?

[Bobsk8 12,735]

 

33 minutes ago, Lenny777 said:

We're in a different planet then. This is a complex sim which larger portions were re-written and depends on Azure for a lot of data. Don't think your experiences covers this by a country mile. 

I worked with sims made in Montreal that cost millions of dollars. What is your experience? 

[Dominique_K 10,149]

 

4 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

 

I worked with sims made in Montreal that cost millions of dollars. What is your experience? 

and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, the pissing contest has begun ! Let us see who word not allowed the farthest !

[Bobsk8 12,735]

1 minute ago, Dominique_K said:

 

and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, the pissing contest has begun ! Let us see who word not allowed the farthest !

Just want to know what level of expert I am talking to in this thread 

[Lenny777 299]

19 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

 

I worked with sims made in Montreal that cost millions of dollars. What is your experience? 

Good for you. I play them and see your cruddy beta work. Listen just because you 'worked' with sims doesnt make you anything more than having an opinion. An opinion by the way which should be tempered with this sim given your alleged 'experience.' 

[SolRayz 392]

On 3/16/2021 at 3:44 AM, mickatmian said:

I definitely did not pay £110 to be a beta tester!

MIck

No? I assumed since the early days of MS FSX, we have been continually beta testing. 

[Lenny777 299]

16 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Just want to know what level of expert I am talking to in this thread 

Weren't you the guy bragging that he didn't have any OOMs with FSX ( despite the thousands of others who did) and therefore the experience was better than P3D  with its 64 bit incarnation which you were berating?

[Bobsk8 12,735]

1 minute ago, Lenny777 said:

Weren't you the guy bragging that he didn't have any OOMs with FSX ( despite the thousands of others who did) and therefore the experience was better than P3D  with its 64 bit incarnation which you were berating?

Never had OOMs with P3D, but I usually didn't fly over 1 hour flights. I think you have me confused with someone else. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Bobsk8

[himmelhorse 1,276]

17 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

The thing that occurs to me, is that the sims that you go back to, each have had a decade (or more) of development, spanning multiple versions.

Which is being compared to approximately 7 months from release of what is probably, arguably, an insanely more complex endeavor, considering all of the things MSFS is doing at the same time, and the different sources its streaming and combining data from, even as Asobo is (still) frantically working on the internals and the SDK and the imminent XBOX release as well as working with multiple partners.

In fact, it's even worse than that, really, because FSX is based on its older forebears, and that practically takes that sims history back through what amounts to multiple decades of incremental development.

Sure, there's eventually going to come a time to say enough is enough, but to me, a fair time for that is probably in a couple of years. 

Even the much smaller developers of DTG sim asked for that much.

HiFlyer,

With all due respect mate, this is not what I am saying.  In fact, you will note that I have said on numerous occasions, that P3D and XPlane are NOT without fault ... are continual works in progress and probably/hopefully always will be. THAT is actually desirable in all our platforms.

What I am alluding to is the fact that we have a good platform riddled (for some) with bugs and issues. These need to be addressed before we get updates to scenery etc. I believe that we all want simply, is a stable platform which the third party developers can work with and not have to worry about the constant need to fix their already stable products after each update.

I do not know how this can be achieved and it would seriously appear, that MS and Asobo are equally baffled.  There is certainly indications that there is little, if any, quality control or retrograde testing before these update releases. 

Further, I am aware that P3D and Xplane release updates, but in comparison the bugs and issues that come out of their updates are relative minor and generally affect everybody in much the same way. This is in stark contrast to MSFS2020 which has numerous issues which affect a majority (?) of users in many different ways.

I fully accept that MSFS 2020 is a work in progress and that it is only 7 months into is post release development.  I also take into account that there have been numerous references to the fact that this platform has been worked on for up to five years before release.  All of this is irrelevant to my argument or point, which is, again, fix what we already have before moving on to other updates.  This would amount to "real" updates as opposed to the release of further bugs and issues that were not in the sim before that update.

In essence too, is the fact, that I am just voicing what I perceive to be a majority opinion and one which MS and Asobo do not appear to be listening to.

Finally, I am not disagreeing to what you are saying. Your points are just as valid, it is simply not what I am trying to say. In addition, when you say that for you, a fair time for that is probably in a couple of years, I would point out your first sentence and simply state that I would reasonably expect development of this sim to be the same as P3D and XPlane in that it will always be in development. I do not expect any sim to reach the stage of "perfection" that would justify stopping further development. At least, that is my hope.

Regards

Tony

[G-RFRY 1,712]

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have noticed for the last two weeks or so, the loading music hits a spot where it quits for a second or two. Made me nervous thinking that the sim was going to crash, but it didn't, and the music began again and everything was normal. Not sure why this is happening, but it didn't happen when I first got the sim a bit over a month ago. 

No before when the airport was selected and you clicked Fly the music would stop and the loading bar would move across and you ended up sitting at the airport, now it crashes just before going to the airport to start flight, it may  need a full re-install but I will wait till the next update first, I don`t use cache just full streaming no addons. It`s a bit like windows update fix something and find another bug.

[G-RFRY 1,712]

In the first interview at Seattle on stage I remember them saying when asked did you start from scratch and throw out the old code and start afresh, the reply was no not completely there is nothing wrong with the code.  

Edited March 17, 2021 by G-RFRY