wings gusts/turbulence in msfs live weather

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

Funny this topic should come up - just tried the WT CJ4 after (finally) installing the latest sim update (on 2nd attempt at 22GB to final 88GB download)...

RNAV approach into Palomar using Live weather:

Clouds looked fantastic and was tracking it down on rails... Decided this was too nice to agree with the METAR, so switched to Unreal Weather on final and immediately the sky cover increased and plane started bouncing all over the place with wind shearing +- 10kts on final...

First thought: this is really annoying.

Second this: this is almost as annoying as when it happens just like this flying the real planes

Bottom line: they got this right... or much closer to whatever that should be then what it was.

[RandallR 446]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

That's not unrealistic. Well, the *degree* is sometimes unrealistic, but that it's there isn't. Terrain-generated turbulence can happen even in clear, calm weather conditions.

Doesn't take much at all - it was very common for me when flying a light aircraft (usually a 152) on a warm day to get a kick in the pants simply by flying across a highway (with the much hotter air rising off the blacktop or concrete).

[Noel 4,503]

11 hours ago, hangar said:

The movement vs inertia issues will likely need lots of time and experimentation to be tweaked, no doubt, but at least now this platform finally has some sort of movement to it

100% agree.  Plus, this stuff is all sitting in a data table that can have its various parameters tweaked as needed to fine tune.  MS/A is busy readying for DX-12 and console.

[Yoda967 23]

21 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

There is even pirep joke about it when Cessna 172 report severe turbulence over  cajon pass, few seconds later 737 report at the same altitude and place a light chop.

I did that flying solo in a C152. Departing out of the old Glenview Naval Air Station behind a USMC C-130, the tower had me wait for any wake turbulence and cleared me to take off. On climbout, I started getting hammered...I had one of those old Sporty's folding kneeboards that didn't strap on and at one point, I grabbed it out of the air and jammed it into the passenger seat pocket. I returned to the pattern and landed, and as required by the Navy Flying Club, went to the weather shack to make my PIREP. The weatherguesser shrugged and said, "Yeah, the guy departing before you reported heavy chop on their way out."

Me: "And what was he flying?"

Her: "A C-130."

Me: "And what was I flying?"

Her: "A Cessna 152?"

Me:

Her:

Me: "And did he make the call on UHF?"

Her: "Yeah."

Me: "How would I have heard it?"

Her:

Me:

Her: "I guess I should have relayed it on VHF."

[amahran 47]

21 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

It is not uncommon to feel more turbulence in lighter aircraft rather than heavier. There is even pirep joke about it when Cessna 172 report severe turbulence over  cajon pass, few seconds later 737 report at the same altitude and place a light chop. 🙂

This ain’t a joke. I’ve flown through a bumpy convective day in a 172 that randomly threw my plane into a 45 degree bank. That kind of turbulence in a 747 is just a light bump.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

1 hour ago, amahran said:

This ain’t a joke. I’ve flown through a bumpy convective day in a 172 that randomly threw my plane into a 45 degree bank. That kind of turbulence in a 747 is just a light bump.

Well it's joke for me:) I have experience it all of it from mountain wave to microburst. And often my students freak out after a smallest bump. By the way there is nothing wrong with that, it just our perception changes with experience  So when they learn how to make in flight pirep I always have to downgrade their turbulence estimation 🙂

But yes generally speaking it's a physics law that heavier body mass will react less on the same changes in pressure and velocity.  

[Bobsk8 12,735]

Speaking of wake turbulence, I used to fly up and down the beach area a great deal in a C 152, from Ft Lauderdale to South of Miami, near Key Biscayne. One day I was flying north at 1500 feet, and a 747 was on approach to runway 27 at KMIA.  He looked to be about 4000 feet as he crossed the shoreline, and I was maybe a mile south of his path. I decided to make a couple of 360's, and I figured that wake Turbulence descends at about 500 FPM, so if I waited a few minutes, before going under his flightpath, I would be OK.  By this time, I could see he was almost landing, so I headed North, and hit the biggest bump I could ever remember. Guess my timing was off. 

[sd_flyer 6,042]

OK, so turbulence is perceived differently by different people. There are many difference how we register our bodies toss inside cockpit while we focused on essentials and woking on our tasks. We do notice those bumps that take effort to recover back to desired airplane attitude!

Those who have been flying for a while usually get  used to those bumps and sort of filter them off in their brains. In contrast, those why just learning to fly usually hour  distracted more by turbulence and therefore perceive it differently! Mind me to say no matter what experience pilots have most of of us do no like turbulence ! 🙂  

Now question is how simulation of turbulence can  satisfy all our perceptions ? Or body and brain learn to compensate all that  " jazz" since we don't study turbulence we fly airplane! 

So I took a liberty to take my phone and record short clip in turbulent air while we were doing 360 over the hills. I held phone in my hand by firmly placing my right elbow on 172 door handle . Shortly after I have uploaded this video on tiktok (since it was fast and easy way to do it). You can see all bumps and jerks of what I classify as light turbulence . However, what camera shows it's not how I would perceive this turbulence if I flew the airplane myself ! Take a look

https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=1&item_id=6951852385920748806#/@sd_flyer/video/6951852385920748806

[F737MAX 5,607]

49 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

You can see all bumps and jerks of what I classify as light turbulence . However, what camera shows it's not how I would perceive this turbulence if I flew the airplane myself ! Take a look

https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=1&item_id=6951852385920748806#/@sd_flyer/video/6951852385920748806

Again, an American flying over mountains giving their opinion on how often turbulence is experienced...

While that video shows only very light chop, it should not be seen as representative of how frequently turbulence occurs in other areas of the World. Not everywhere has relief-generating mechanical turbulence, nor the more intense convective turbulence of Socal.

You don't have to have the aeroplane moving around all the time in the sim to recreate the sensation of flight. Calm days do exist where a 360 turn results in you hitting your own wake turbulence, with no other bumps felt the entire flight.

Edited April 17, 2021 by F737NG

[sd_flyer 6,042]

1 hour ago, F737NG said:

Again, an American flying over mountains giving their opinion on how often turbulence is experienced...

While that video shows only very light chop, it should not be seen as representative of how frequently turbulence occurs in other areas of the World. Not everywhere has relief-generating mechanical turbulence, nor the more intense convective turbulence of Socal.

You don't have to have the aeroplane moving around all the time in the sim to recreate the sensation of flight. Calm days do exist where a 360 turn results in you hitting your own wake turbulence, with no other bumps felt the entire flight.

 I also flew in Australia and Europe IRL if it will settle well with you? 🙂 Just to be clear I live in US but I wasn't born there! I can fluently speak two other languages besides English. American is too broad word to fit us all LOL

I was hoping it was clear from description is that video an example  of difference between human perceptions vs camera capturing of light turbulence and how it could be translated to simulate on computer. Also It  was  not mechanical; there was specific  AIRMET of light to moderate turbulence that day up to FL28. I really don't understand what are you trying to say? There are no calm day in MSFS or SoCal? I have never said such thing!🙂

[KERNEL32 500]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:02 PM, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

Funny this topic should come up - just tried the WT CJ4 after (finally) installing the latest sim update (on 2nd attempt at 22GB to final 88GB download)...

RNAV approach into Palomar using Live weather:

Clouds looked fantastic and was tracking it down on rails... Decided this was too nice to agree with the METAR, so switched to Unreal Weather on final and immediately the sky cover increased and plane started bouncing all over the place with wind shearing +- 10kts on final...

First thought: this is really annoying.

Second this: this is almost as annoying as when it happens just like this flying the real planes

Bottom line: they got this right... or much closer to whatever that should be then what it was.

YES!

Asobo please tweak to be more realistic, currently not enough turbulence using real world weather... first match up to the Meteoblue CAT data (https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather-maps/auckland_new-zealand_2193733?variable=lowcld&level=surface&lines=none&mapcenter=28.3431N278.0365&zoom=8#coords=3.64/37.1/-93.93&map=clearAirTurbulendce~hourly~auto~950 mb~none)

then take into account the atmospheric effects of the area time of day, heat, etc. to generate realistic turbulence effects..

R/W Pilot since 1980's, I can tell you there really isn't enough turbulence in MSFS, but could be in part where I'm flying (KABQ lately). I did fly int KDEN last night and descending through overcast layer FINALLY has some bouncing around which I never seemed to get before...

Edited April 18, 2021 by KERNEL32

[F737MAX 5,607]

23 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Just I was hoping it was clear from description is that video an example  of difference between human perceptions vs camera capturing of light turbulence and how it could be translated to simulate on computer.

There are too many people that think that adding more turbulence makes MSFS more realistic. "No more flying on rails" is the cry.

Even the very next post is demanding more:

20 hours ago, KERNEL32 said:

Asobo please tweak to be more realistic, currently not enough turbulence using real world weather... first match up to the Meteoblue

then take into account the atmospheric effects of the area time of day, heat, etc. to generate realistic turbulence effects..

R/W Pilot since 1980's, I can tell you there really isn't enough turbulence in MSFS

Predominantly, these are Americans making this request. But when we already have stories of the MSFS A32N falling out of the sky because of mountain rotors and an inability to trim and leave an aeroplane in level flight for more than a few seconds without it being buffeted about, I have to question why this demand for more.

While I freely admit I'm nowhere near as experienced as some posting on here, my IRL experience from flights in various different countries and different seasons have been in the main (though not all) calm and turbulent free. The desire by some to add more movement in a sim that already overreacts would be, IMO, a backwards step.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

10 minutes ago, F737NG said:

There are too many people that think that adding more turbulence makes MSFS more realistic. "No more flying on rails" is the cry.

 

I don't want to use fallacy of hasty generalization on "too many people". I see some people are not happy on how turbulence is represented . It's tough to get right to satisfy everyone. Last time I flew XP11 turbulence wasn't modeled great as well.  I have plenty MSFS flights  "like on rails " with little or no turbulence. Maybe it specific to some servers or weather add ons, I can't judge it I am only using native live weather.

[F737MAX 5,607]

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

It's tough to get right to satisfy everyone.

That's true.

I just don't want Asobo to ramp-up the global turbulence setting because of feedback from pilots used to tropical or subtropical climes and/or nearby significant terrain. Their experience of flying will be rather different from someone like mine, living in a much more temperate and flatter region.

15 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

I have plenty MSFS flights  "like on rails " with little or no turbulence.

I have had a lot of bumpy flights, even in the A32N, where I thought there weren't the weather conditions to cause them.

Ideally, Asobo would make the turbulence setting more localised, so that flying over the Grand Canyon on a hot summer's afternoon will bounce you around like a jumping bean. Then on the other hand, a flight in Spring, Autumn or Winter over fields in the flat East of England could be almost as smooth as glass (if real weather conditions permit).

[Noel 4,503]

20 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Ideally, Asobo would make the turbulence setting more localised, so that flying over the Grand Canyon on a hot summer's afternoon will bounce you around like a jumping bean. 

For sure and I imagine the modeling is already there to some degree but maybe needs serious CPU power to run alongside everything else.