Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
mikeklimek

Current State of "How To" for Rnav Approaches?

Recommended Posts

At this point, I think I may just try some ILS landings in a helicopter, you just never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never done an RNAV approach before, but isn't an ILS landing more automated?

I know it depends on the airport, runway and what your plane is equipped with, but given that you had the choice to land via RNAV vs ILS. Which would you choose? Why would one choose one method over the other? Isn't an ILS approach the preferred method?


ASUS ROG Maximus Hero XII ▪︎ Intel i9-10900K ▪︎ NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE ▪︎ 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro ▪︎ Windows 10 Pro (20H2) ▪︎ Samsung 970 EVO Pro 1TB NVME SSD (OS Drive) ▪︎ Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SATA SSD ▪︎ Seagate 4TB SATA HDD ▪︎ Corsair RMx 850W PSU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ILS is preferred but some airports only have RNAV or sometimes the ILS is only on the other side facing a direction or approach you don't want to go out of the way for. Sometimes I prefer an RNAV because the ILS is on the remote side of the runway with not as much scenery on the approach.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/2/2021 at 10:25 PM, captain420 said:

..given that you had the choice to land via RNAV vs ILS. Which would you choose? Why would one choose one method over the other?

As mentioned, not all runways have ILS, and RNAV approaches are becoming more and more common.  However, because of the poor state of RNAV simulation in MSFS, whenever an ILS approach is available, I choose it over the RNAV option. 🙂

  • Like 3

Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

As mentioned, not all runways have ILS, and RNAV approaches are becoming more and more common.  However, because of the poor state of RNAV simulation in MSFS, whenever an ILS approach is available, I choose it over the RNAV option. 🙂

+1ⁿ


Frank Patton
MSI Z490 WiFi MOB;  i7 10700k Comet Lake 3.8 Ghz CPU; Ripjaws 32 gb DDR4 3600; ASUS GTX 1070 TI Turbo 8GB; MasterCase H500M; Corsair H100i Pro cooler; Corsair RMX850X PSU; ASUS VG289 4K 27"; Honeycomb Alpha Yoke A+.  Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor; AOPA Member #07379126 
                        There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit! - Benjamin Jowett

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2021 at 1:25 AM, captain420 said:

I've never done an RNAV approach before, but isn't an ILS landing more automated?

I know it depends on the airport, runway and what your plane is equipped with, but given that you had the choice to land via RNAV vs ILS. Which would you choose? Why would one choose one method over the other? Isn't an ILS approach the preferred method?

A WAAS LPV approach can often give minimums as just as low as a CAT I ILS, and is flown the same way, except the “glideslope” is referred to as a “glidepath”, and the guidance cue on the PFD will be magenta instead of green as when flying an ILS glideslope. 
 

WAAS/LPV (unlike standard ILS) requires no ground-based equipment, so an LPV approach can be established at airports where a full ILS would not be practical for technical or economic reasons. My local airport has four runways. Two runways have ILS, but all four runways have an LPV approach, and the LPV on the two runways that also have ILS exactly duplicates the ILS glideslope and has the same minimums.

Edited by JRBarrett
  • Like 1

Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/2/2021 at 4:06 PM, mikeklimek said:

Thanks guys, these answers have already been helpful, much appreciated.  I experienced this most recently at KTYS: https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/2104/pdf/00218R5R.PDF

I thought it would work as the chart says 'WAAS' at the top left, but taking a closer look, I notice now there's a asterisk footnote that it's "LNAV only" seemingly from the FAF of VOYUR to the runway (doh!).  Guess that would explain that one.  Curious though, why would it say 'WAAS' but simultaneously be 'LNAV only'?  As indicated earlier, doesn't 'WAAS' mean vertical guidance is provided?

I'm going to find a chart specifically with LPV or LNAV+V and keep practicing.

Edit: Actually now I'm thinking I may be misinterpreting the asterisk, at least just after the FAF.

Hi, new to the forum. I've been trying to teach myself RNAV GPS glide approach also. I just tried KTYS in a 172 and it followed the pattern I've found the last few days of testing.  It grabs the glide fine but it does it at the final fix XIZMO not the faf VOYUR, which makes it less useful.  I had to drop from 2700 to 1840 myself.  I expected it to work from the FAF if not before.  Unless I just don't understand how these things work (entirely possible!), it feels like a simple case of the glide path not starting soon enough. It always goes for the last fix, which is often not the FAF.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but some planes in the real world such as the CRJ700 usually are equipped to not offer vertical descent in RNAV. Thus, NAV mode (rather than APR) is used for lateral only with the pilot using VS mode for vertical. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, MarkSC said:

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but some planes in the real world such as the CRJ700 usually are equipped to not offer vertical descent in RNAV. Thus, NAV mode (rather than APR) is used for lateral only with the pilot using VS mode for vertical. 

There is a Rockwell Collins STC that can give a CRJ full WAAS/LPV capability, but is is a very expensive upgrade, and AFAIK very few airline CRJ operators have opted to install it. Indeed, most “standard” CRJs require the pilot to fly the vertical profile of an RNAV approach using vertical speed mode.


Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure real world is far more complex. I wouldn't personally try to comment on the particular limits of actual life approaches as I have no idea.  I'm just talking about the sim apparently doing GPS glide path but at the final fix point regardless of if it's the FAF or not.  If it's going do glide for all RNAV GPS, it seems it just needs to do it sooner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, manageablebits said:

I'm sure real world is far more complex. I wouldn't personally try to comment on the particular limits of actual life approaches as I have no idea.  I'm just talking about the sim apparently doing GPS glide path but at the final fix point regardless of if it's the FAF or not.  If it's going do glide for all RNAV GPS, it seems it just needs to do it sooner. 

Agreed.  Discussed here:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/599895-rnav-v-approaches-wt-are-you-watching/

Edited by Bert Pieke
  • Like 1

Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2021 at 12:25 AM, captain420 said:

I've never done an RNAV approach before, but isn't an ILS landing more automated?

I know it depends on the airport, runway and what your plane is equipped with, but given that you had the choice to land via RNAV vs ILS. Which would you choose? Why would one choose one method over the other? Isn't an ILS approach the preferred method?

I'm going a little off topic.  But if you're meaning a full auto land then yes that's only available with a CAT III ILS.  The full auto land thing isn't very common for day to day operations.  

Also you can fly an ILS and RNAV approaches without an autopilot.  The little plane I fly doesn't even have one.


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

Also you can fly an ILS and RNAV approaches without an autopilot.  The little plane I fly doesn't even have one.

I thought the purpose of those type of approaches is automation? Why would you fly them without AP?


ASUS ROG Maximus Hero XII ▪︎ Intel i9-10900K ▪︎ NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE ▪︎ 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro ▪︎ Windows 10 Pro (20H2) ▪︎ Samsung 970 EVO Pro 1TB NVME SSD (OS Drive) ▪︎ Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SATA SSD ▪︎ Seagate 4TB SATA HDD ▪︎ Corsair RMx 850W PSU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, captain420 said:

I thought the purpose of those type of approaches is automation? Why would you fly them without AP?

The purpose of the approaches is to guide you safely to the runway, regardless of whether you are handflying or on autopilot.. It is really good piloting practice to fly them by hand!


Bert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, captain420 said:

I thought the purpose of those type of approaches is automation? Why would you fly them without AP?

Many aircraft do not have autopilot.  Only airliners and corporate jets/turboprops...  Sometimes smaller GA will as well.

As Bert said the point of an ILS is to allow aircraft to reach the runway safely in poor weather.

Edited by ryanbatcund

|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    49%
    $12,400.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...