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Guest iwantmydc3

Whatever happened to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism?

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Amen to that.even if I am disappointed about the date for the DX 10 update (indeed, I would liked to have it yesterday), I am happy that the first Service Pack will be in the foreseeable future.Also the fact that ACEs are working on an Add-on proves their commitment to the brand. I like FSX. That is a personal preference. And I am happy that the product will be improved upon without us having to buy a FS XI. Jan

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Just because your happy to sit in silence over a flawed product doesnt mean that other people should. Different people express themselves in different ways. FSX should never have been released in its present state, and people have a right to be angry. Id say the only reason M$ are reacting to the FSX problems are due to the large number of people blowing off steam. So stop feeling sorry for ACES, they stuffed up, and now theyre copping the flack.

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> What ever happened to constuctive criticism?It didn't work?

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>> What ever happened to constuctive criticism?>>It didn't work?Kind of looks like it.The constructive criticism came during the FS-X demo and Beta with comments like:- Nice Beta but the performance is terrible- It looks awsome but bloom eats framerates for breakfastetc, etcMost of it was never reacted on. They prommised somewhat beter performance though but in the end the better performance was nowhere near good enough for most users. We still have the promise of a performance update in SP1.Recently one of the ACEs guys wanted to clarify their view on what they see in the DX10 artist impressions that some of us seem to have on their walls like pinup posters (and like those posters its almost all airbrushed fantasy).FS-X needs a very good, above expectation SP1 when that one fails the newly annouced add-on and the DX10 update are irrelevant.

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Nick,I honestly agree with you, for the most part, but I have to admit that I also find it just as curious how many people feel the need to take up the fight for Microsoft.Many people certainly seem to be genuinely frustrated, and ya know what, it's no business of mine, yours, or anyone else to tell them that they shouldn't be. Sure, it goes over the top sometimes, but can you honestly say you've never over-exaggerated an issue you were put off by ? On the flip-side of that, there seems to be a significant number of people that are genuinely satisfied with the product, and should not be made to feel as if they're somehow selling out the community by saying so.Most people have the ability to make decisions for themselves, based on what they see the situation to be; unfortunately, we have a few, and make no mistake about it, it's only a few, very vocal folks on both sides of the fence, that jump at every opportunity to try and force their views down the throats others.....whatever...

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"See, it only took 50 minutes for the first 4 year old to climb out of the sandbox!"I suppose comments like this are part of the solution ? :-hmmm

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Brian,Thanks for the response. The rest of this post is generic in terms, and not specifically directed at you, so don't get the wrong idea.My point really had little to do with FSX, ACES, the FS user-base, or AVSIM. It had everything to do with the fact that, in general, people these days are offering less and less in the way of critical thinking, constructive criticism, and or tolerance.I think we can do better, thats all.Nick

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Well said Nick, I couldn't agree with you more.Eagerly awaiting SP1, DX10 features, and the expansion pack.-Thad

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> It didn't work?When was it even tried?Again, I don't mean "Name another instance when droves of people openly stated that FSX was a waste and referred to Bill Gates personally ripping them off."Nick

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>Just because your happy to sit in silence over a flawed product Not once have I sat in silence, friend. I've filed my share of bug reports. Downloaded my share of beta drops, and generally done my part to offer genuine constructive feedback.>Id say the only reason M$...This very thread is about stopping the insults, and you stop yourself from slipping that in can you?>So stop feeling sorry for ACESACES is not the group I feel sorry for. Think about it.Nick

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FS9 wasn't perfect and neither were any of the other releases, which in my eyes explains the large number of 3rd party developers.It's difficult to please all users and after 10th release I don't see much of a difference in the evolution of the flightsim from release date till now, just more vocal this time around due to the developers listening and interacting I'm assuming.Ian.

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Nick,Again, I agree with you, and apologize for maybe missing the point of your original post.I understand that you weren't necessarily referring to AVSim, but as a small example of a larger idea, I'd offer that much of the reason we're seeing such ridiculous behavior here is simply because people feel they can get away with it. Personal insults and ad hominem attacks have become far more the rule than the exception, and we all lose out because of that, as true debate/discussion is not possible in such an environment.It is no more acceptable to trash Microsoft based on such trivial matters as it is to call another poster a 4-year-old for stating his opinion, but, round-and-round we go...

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So SP1 failed? Crap, and I was hoping to glean a few more fps. Oh well, X-plane and flightgear here I come.Ian.

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"...but I have to admit that I also find it just as curious how many people feel the need to take up the fight for Microsoft."We're not taking up the fight for MS. Just making sure the community is equally represented on both sides. There are those who feel they need to voice their complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related, others of us want to show our support. Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately, within the constraints of business realties, to improve the hobby we are so fond of. It

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>it's only a few, very vocal folks on both sides of the fence,>that jump at every opportunity to try and force their views>down the throats others.>You've seemed to have joined the happy group of vocal folks, by trying to push your opposing opinion down my throat......all day long! :D At least I'm honest, I'll readily admit that I'm a bit vocal. :-hahL.Adamson

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Thad,"We're not taking up the fight for MS."I'll concede that may not have been the best way to phrase it, but please, don't try and frame what happens here in support of MS is any great, altruistic crusade against negativity, because it isn't."There are those who feel they need to voice their complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related, others of us want to show our support."I'm sure that's very true, but if your idea of support is engaging in slagging matches and trading clever barbs with those you disagree with, you are part of the problem."Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately, within the constraints of business realties, to improve the hobby we are so fond of."Again, nothing wrong with that; I really don't think you've read my post in it's entirety."It?s my belief that there is a silent or less vocal majority who are content with FSX and appreciates the work Aces is still doing to make it better through the free updates (SP1 and DX10) and the expansion pack."It's my belief that this silent majority don't have silly allegiances to one product or the other, have valid concerns as to where things are actually going, and are patiently waiting to see what the future brings."So pardon us while we try to keep all this negativity in check."When you actually decide to participate in achieving that goal, let me know, and I'll stand right there with you. As of yet, I've not seen you or anyone else do much but perpetuate the fight.

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Excellent post Nick, and well said! If anything ACES is responding to the bug reports and technical support trends they are seeing, solutions come from quantifiable data, not from a bunch of people moaning and groaning. I've been saying this for a while, but I've come to the realization that some folks would rather do what you say in your last sentence than contribute anything positive.Jeff

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Show me a single idea, thought, opinion, anything, that I've pushed you towards Larry, today or any other.I've held my words for months now, but as of today, I'm tired of seeing the same people use the same tactics to achieve the same ends, and you are most certainly at the top of the list.Excellent topics repeatedly dragged into the gutter by the same BS, over and over again.So yeah, I've got some things to say, yeah...

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>Thad,>>"We're not taking up the fight for MS.">>I'll concede that may not have been the best way to phrase it,>but please, don't try and frame what happens here in support>of MS is any great, altruistic crusade against negativity,>because it isn't.>>"There are those who feel they need to voice their>complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to>show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related,>others of us want to show our support.">>I'm sure that's very true, but if your idea of support is>engaging in slagging matches and trading clever barbs with>those you disagree with, you are part of the problem.>>"Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support>for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately,>within the constraints of business realties, to improve the>hobby we are so fond of.">>Again, nothing wrong with that; I really don't think you've>read my post in it's entirety.>>"It?s my belief that there is a silent or less vocal>majority who are content with FSX and appreciates the work>Aces is still doing to make it better through the free updates>(SP1 and DX10) and the expansion pack.">>It's my belief that this silent majority don't have silly>allegiances to one product or the other, have valid concerns>as to where things are actually going, and are patiently>waiting to see what the future brings.>>"So pardon us while we try to keep all this negativity in>check.">>When you actually decide to participate in achieving that>goal, let me know, and I'll stand right there with you. As of>yet, I've not seen you or anyone else do much but perpetuate>the fight.Brian, I think I see what you are trying to say. I agree it is better to just not say anything that woould keep provoking those that are being negative, but in my defense, I can't just let the negative post be the last thing a user sees to mold his judgement of the product or define what "every" simmer feels, which is how it tends to get twisted. Like Larry you sometimes have to shed light on the opposite side of the coin and in doing so it gets absorbed into the whole fray of negativity.It is to the point here that when you try to point out things in a constructive manner, you get swallowed by the ones that are frustrated/angry/dissillusioned or just downright rude and want to argue. I moderate an FSX forum and we usually are able to have constructive discusssions, even with the frustration many have. It's almost like they can't fathom that those of use with favorable FSX experiences are feeling the same pain, but we tend to focus on the positve experience instead.While some simmers here have a problem with Larry's optimistic/support of FSX, it goes both ways and there are several simmers here that have no credibility left due to their constant onesidedness.Regards, MichaelKDFWNot anti FS9, just pro FSX!

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI-x16 / AMD

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Well Nick:I dunno. I would assume that there was a long beta test period and I would also assume that constructive suggestions where made by the beta testers, no? And I would assume that "viable" fixes would have been possible at that time, no?Now, I think its downright peachy that the Aces team talks to the community now "officially". In the same token, I don't think its peachy that in those conversations, very little of what we constructively suggested in FSX came to fruition. I'm going to go out on a limb and think that not too many of the constructive beta group demanded that frolicking zebras be immediately placed into FSX. I'm also going to stretch a little further and suggest that the constructive vote count for ignoring dual core and sli were pretty slim pickin's too. Now, I was not on the beta team but I am going give 5:1 odds that someone might have constructively suggested that trying to land an airplane at 10fps is not fun. But maybe I'm wrong and I missed the poll where seagulls flittering in the breeze around barges, was the number one feature suggestion in FSX.Sure, you can call it belly-aching, whining, complaning, or just plain glass is half full if ya like...free country and all. However, I will guarantee you that it was the uproar that forced Aces hand to go back to the conference room, put a hold on the atta-boy great jobs, and start working most skosh on FSX SP1 and FSX DX10 Patch.Of course, we would have beat around the bush and started each post with the gratuitous "I abosutely love FSX...." but some are simply more deliberate in their words. By the time a patch is installed on our computers, many of us will have flown FSX for less than an hour and in many instances there is far more dust than flight time accumulating on many copies of FSX.So, when people like you post about the lack of constructive criticism, belly aching and such its as useless as the M$ Sucks posts. Left to the give peace a chance crowd we'd all be sitting with idiotic grins on their faces, whispering sweet constructive suggestions in the ears of the Aces Team as we chase zebras through the underbrush as 5 fps.No matter. However, it would seem that "inept automatons" spoon feeding "yassirs" to the Aces team do far more damage to the community than those who stand up and demand that they actually get a product they can use after spending their money as opposed to something that will be usable in 2016.Sorry, for being a pitiful, child-like belly-acher. Thankfully my skin is thicker than the Aces team and I can take "constructive" criticism like that (funny how posts like yours finds other posts insulting so you remedy that with insults.)Mabye YOU should rethink the constructive value of YOUR posts? How's that for constructive critism? :-)

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>So yeah, I've got some things to say, yeah...Welcome to the group...

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@ Nick, the OP:Ditto, amen, and thank you. :-beerchug @MikeT:I think many of us (I speak only for myself though) are tired of the folks whose childish mantra is that nothing good seems to ever come from this font of all known evil in Redmond. It's one thing if you have facts and can speak critically about the subject, and some do, but many posters are just repeating the tired stuff on the net, much of it lacking in substance and truth.

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