And where exactly do you see silence in this forum? :)Ian.

"...but I have to admit that I also find it just as curious how many people feel the need to take up the fight for Microsoft."We're not taking up the fight for MS. Just making sure the community is equally represented on both sides. There are those who feel they need to voice their complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related, others of us want to show our support. Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately, within the constraints of business realties, to improve the hobby we are so fond of. It

>it's only a few, very vocal folks on both sides of the fence,>that jump at every opportunity to try and force their views>down the throats others.>You've seemed to have joined the happy group of vocal folks, by trying to push your opposing opinion down my throat......all day long! :D At least I'm honest, I'll readily admit that I'm a bit vocal. :-hahL.Adamson

Thad,"We're not taking up the fight for MS."I'll concede that may not have been the best way to phrase it, but please, don't try and frame what happens here in support of MS is any great, altruistic crusade against negativity, because it isn't."There are those who feel they need to voice their complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related, others of us want to show our support."I'm sure that's very true, but if your idea of support is engaging in slagging matches and trading clever barbs with those you disagree with, you are part of the problem."Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately, within the constraints of business realties, to improve the hobby we are so fond of."Again, nothing wrong with that; I really don't think you've read my post in it's entirety."It?s my belief that there is a silent or less vocal majority who are content with FSX and appreciates the work Aces is still doing to make it better through the free updates (SP1 and DX10) and the expansion pack."It's my belief that this silent majority don't have silly allegiances to one product or the other, have valid concerns as to where things are actually going, and are patiently waiting to see what the future brings."So pardon us while we try to keep all this negativity in check."When you actually decide to participate in achieving that goal, let me know, and I'll stand right there with you. As of yet, I've not seen you or anyone else do much but perpetuate the fight.

Excellent post Nick, and well said! If anything ACES is responding to the bug reports and technical support trends they are seeing, solutions come from quantifiable data, not from a bunch of people moaning and groaning. I've been saying this for a while, but I've come to the realization that some folks would rather do what you say in your last sentence than contribute anything positive.Jeff

Show me a single idea, thought, opinion, anything, that I've pushed you towards Larry, today or any other.I've held my words for months now, but as of today, I'm tired of seeing the same people use the same tactics to achieve the same ends, and you are most certainly at the top of the list.Excellent topics repeatedly dragged into the gutter by the same BS, over and over again.So yeah, I've got some things to say, yeah...

>Thad,>>"We're not taking up the fight for MS.">>I'll concede that may not have been the best way to phrase it,>but please, don't try and frame what happens here in support>of MS is any great, altruistic crusade against negativity,>because it isn't.>>"There are those who feel they need to voice their>complaints with overwhelming negativity and while they want to>show their distaste for FSX, Aces and all things MS related,>others of us want to show our support.">>I'm sure that's very true, but if your idea of support is>engaging in slagging matches and trading clever barbs with>those you disagree with, you are part of the problem.>>"Many of us are enjoying FSX and want to voice our support>for the Aces team members who work hard and passionately,>within the constraints of business realties, to improve the>hobby we are so fond of.">>Again, nothing wrong with that; I really don't think you've>read my post in it's entirety.>>"It?s my belief that there is a silent or less vocal>majority who are content with FSX and appreciates the work>Aces is still doing to make it better through the free updates>(SP1 and DX10) and the expansion pack.">>It's my belief that this silent majority don't have silly>allegiances to one product or the other, have valid concerns>as to where things are actually going, and are patiently>waiting to see what the future brings.>>"So pardon us while we try to keep all this negativity in>check.">>When you actually decide to participate in achieving that>goal, let me know, and I'll stand right there with you. As of>yet, I've not seen you or anyone else do much but perpetuate>the fight.Brian, I think I see what you are trying to say. I agree it is better to just not say anything that woould keep provoking those that are being negative, but in my defense, I can't just let the negative post be the last thing a user sees to mold his judgement of the product or define what "every" simmer feels, which is how it tends to get twisted. Like Larry you sometimes have to shed light on the opposite side of the coin and in doing so it gets absorbed into the whole fray of negativity.It is to the point here that when you try to point out things in a constructive manner, you get swallowed by the ones that are frustrated/angry/dissillusioned or just downright rude and want to argue. I moderate an FSX forum and we usually are able to have constructive discusssions, even with the frustration many have. It's almost like they can't fathom that those of use with favorable FSX experiences are feeling the same pain, but we tend to focus on the positve experience instead.While some simmers here have a problem with Larry's optimistic/support of FSX, it goes both ways and there are several simmers here that have no credibility left due to their constant onesidedness.Regards, MichaelKDFWNot anti FS9, just pro FSX!

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI-x16 / AMD

Well Nick:I dunno. I would assume that there was a long beta test period and I would also assume that constructive suggestions where made by the beta testers, no? And I would assume that "viable" fixes would have been possible at that time, no?Now, I think its downright peachy that the Aces team talks to the community now "officially". In the same token, I don't think its peachy that in those conversations, very little of what we constructively suggested in FSX came to fruition. I'm going to go out on a limb and think that not too many of the constructive beta group demanded that frolicking zebras be immediately placed into FSX. I'm also going to stretch a little further and suggest that the constructive vote count for ignoring dual core and sli were pretty slim pickin's too. Now, I was not on the beta team but I am going give 5:1 odds that someone might have constructively suggested that trying to land an airplane at 10fps is not fun. But maybe I'm wrong and I missed the poll where seagulls flittering in the breeze around barges, was the number one feature suggestion in FSX.Sure, you can call it belly-aching, whining, complaning, or just plain glass is half full if ya like...free country and all. However, I will guarantee you that it was the uproar that forced Aces hand to go back to the conference room, put a hold on the atta-boy great jobs, and start working most skosh on FSX SP1 and FSX DX10 Patch.Of course, we would have beat around the bush and started each post with the gratuitous "I abosutely love FSX...." but some are simply more deliberate in their words. By the time a patch is installed on our computers, many of us will have flown FSX for less than an hour and in many instances there is far more dust than flight time accumulating on many copies of FSX.So, when people like you post about the lack of constructive criticism, belly aching and such its as useless as the M$ Sucks posts. Left to the give peace a chance crowd we'd all be sitting with idiotic grins on their faces, whispering sweet constructive suggestions in the ears of the Aces Team as we chase zebras through the underbrush as 5 fps.No matter. However, it would seem that "inept automatons" spoon feeding "yassirs" to the Aces team do far more damage to the community than those who stand up and demand that they actually get a product they can use after spending their money as opposed to something that will be usable in 2016.Sorry, for being a pitiful, child-like belly-acher. Thankfully my skin is thicker than the Aces team and I can take "constructive" criticism like that (funny how posts like yours finds other posts insulting so you remedy that with insults.)Mabye YOU should rethink the constructive value of YOUR posts? How's that for constructive critism? :-)

>So yeah, I've got some things to say, yeah...Welcome to the group...

@ Nick, the OP:Ditto, amen, and thank you. :-beerchug @MikeT:I think many of us (I speak only for myself though) are tired of the folks whose childish mantra is that nothing good seems to ever come from this font of all known evil in Redmond. It's one thing if you have facts and can speak critically about the subject, and some do, but many posters are just repeating the tired stuff on the net, much of it lacking in substance and truth.

>Now, I was not on the beta team but I am going give 5:1 odds>that someone might have constructively suggested that trying>to land an airplane at 10fps is not fun. Mike, I don't land my FSX planes at 10 fps, and don't with FS9 either. But as you know, and I know; we can easily drag both of these sims down to this number if we want. With all my latest FS9 goodies, and must haves, I'm now often seeing lower or near matching fps numbers that I usually fly FSX at. How many posts have there been in the last three years regarding FS9 and "single digits"? Well.......plentyL.Adamson

As much as I am trying to love FSX (about a 50% success ATM), excellent post Mike, excellent post!Gary

L:"How many posts have there been in the last three years regarding FS9 and "single digits"? Well.......plenty"Correct, and 4 years later we are having the same conversation, same posts and same arguments. Now talk to me about how wonderfully things have improved.

>L:>>"How many posts have there been in the last three years>regarding FS9 and "single digits"? Well.......plenty">>Correct, and 4 years later we are having the same>conversation, same posts and same arguments. Now talk to me>about how wonderfully things have improved. >We can always go to X-Plane! High frame rates and fluid motion, but missing most of everything else! :-hah L.Adamson

OP-ED: I don't know, from what I've been reading, there ARE NOT a significant number of people satisfied with FSX. No, I have no numbers or statistical data, but I read these and other forums. Sure it takes time for hardware to catch up with any newly released version of FS, but I can't remember when I've read so many posts from people who have shelved it altogether, vs working out the bugs and issues. The coincident release of a new OS I'm sure complicates all of this too, not to mention a new DirectX platform. But are the tweakers all aging baby-boomers who have just generally tired of spending what little free time they have rebuilding and reprogramming their rigs to get FSX to squeeze out 15 FPS in a slow Cessna at an un-occupied bush strip in northern Canada? Are the younger simmers just more patient and able to deal with the same issues we have always dealt with in the past, with each new release of FS? Or is there genuinely something amiss here with this particular release? We'll see what the release of SP1 has in store for us in due time it seems.Food For Thought,and Peace....http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD