Future of p3d ?

[Cognita 1,126]

1 hour ago, Daube said:

But the 4070ti is a bit disappointing,

Why do you say it is disappointing, in general or for Prepar3D? I was actually considering this card for my next build.

[Daube 374]

It's mostly because of the price tag and the relatively low amount of VRAM.

I was also considering that card. Actually, my original plan was to replace my computer with a complete new build end of last year, and I was waiting for the 4070ti to appear on the market in order to do so.

The reason behind this was my expectations regarding that card: I was expecting it to bring a nice amount of power, a nice amount of VRAM, and keep at a reasonable price like around 700 dollars/euros. In the end, yes it's powerful, but the amount of VRAM is potentially problematic (especially for VR), and the price is nowhere near what I expected it to be... Because of this, I have switched my plans to a 4080, slowly accumulating the budget for it. I just can't tolerate the price of the 4090.

[Sabre57 47]

I'm currently running a 3090 on an I9 driving 3 4k monitors at 30hz 4k resolution.  I'm averaging 25 FPS with medium settings in medium complex environments.  25 FPS isn't great but works for me.  I'm sure if I lowered the resolution I'd get more. Not sure how the 4070ti compares.  

[Christopher Low 5,425]

4 hours ago, Daube said:

My system is a bit more recent than yours, and as far as I remember, while I was getting really excellent framerates in rural areas (no matter the density of forests), flying over London (or any other big city) was really hammering the fluidity of my sim. And I didn't even have any heavy AI traffic or anything like that 😕

EDIT: you meant in P3Dv5 right ? Not in v4 ?

If so, then P3Dv5 did get some serious performance upgrade, which is a very good thing 🙂

I am using P3Dv4.5HF2. I do get stutters in various places, although this has improved quite a bit since I disabled all of my AI planes. London is obviously a stress test as far as framerates and overall performance are concerned, but I do not seem to have any problems flying over any other cities in the UK. I even get decent performance flying over Amsterdam and FlyTampa Schiphol airport with huge numbers of AI planes on the ground and in the air. One compromise that I have always made is that I fly in calm weather and clear skies, so that reduces the load on the processor to a certain extent.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Christopher Low

[PavlinS 179]

I am also on v4 HF3 atm. Because of Tomato Shade. 

[F737MAX 5,797]

Having brought my P3D back to working order, I performed a couple of flights around Denver for comparison's sake.

Here’s what the future P3D could (and probably should) try to achieve.

This isn't a my-sim-is-better-than-your-sim™ post. This is a genuine attempt to discuss what LM should aim for with v6.
Please don't use this as an excuse to post comments that slag off the sim you don't use...

 

(Default Denver city, MegaSceneryEarth 3 - Colorado ortho textures, Landscapes Western USA Bundle autogen)

 

 

What I like about P3D here is that the platform renders many more objects in the mid- to far- distance LODs through the main P3D World settings page.
Despite using Terrain LOD 250 and Object LOD of 200, P3D draws far more autogen than MSFS and still has room to offer more.
(Admittedly, this made my PC's fans sound like one of the jet engines on show in these pics!)

If LM do bring photoscenery to P3D, VFR flying at 2,500+ feet could look very appealing with autogen objects remaining on display for longer in lower LODs.

Three areas where I'd like P3D to improve for v6:

• Sunlight is a must fix.In the top picture, there aren't any clouds that would affect the rendering of brilliant sunshine (ActiveSky morphed the volumetric clouds into being after this shot was taken), yet the lighting is as if there is a thin overcast layer.
   
• Fix Volumetric Clouds so that new weather data doesn't force an immediate change in displayed weather and is not replicated globally either.
   
• A new setting that allows autogen vegetation size to be reduced. It's a long-standing issue that has been corrected by two different third-party developers in MSFS.
  In both shots above, I'm flying 5,000 feet AGL. However, P3D's trees make me feel like I'm only at between 1/2 - 2/3 of that height.

 

 

(MegaSceneryEarth 3 - Colorado ortho textures, Landscapes Western USA Bundle autogen and FS Global Ultimate mesh)
 

 

I really hope that if LM does bring global photoscenery to P3D, that we move away from summer-only textures.

The MSFS picture is fantastic where the snow and ice is rendered over both photoscenery ground textures as well as autogen objects. There's also no hard delineating edge to the snow cover.
If you look closely, you can just about make out that the banks of rivers and the shorelines around lakes are free from snow - a nice touch of realism!

The holy grail for me is shaders on the ground textures to replicate the other seasons - Spring, Autumn and Winter (where temps are above freezing point).
It was discussed by John Venema at Orbx, long, long ago, REX Simulations showed an alpha attempt to bring different seasons tonality to MSFS, though have since gone quiet. Only Bijan Habashi has delivered a beta product. However, it only works under DX11 and he too has gone quiet.

These are just a few ideas for visual changes that, IMO, could seriously tempt simmers to take a serious look at v6. LM should not copy verbatim et litteratim what Asobo/MS has delivered with MSFS, as there are some areas where I feel P3D is competitive.

However, LM will only get one chance to make a first impression. That will only be achieved visually, and there needs to be a massive step-up.
 

Edited April 6, 2023 by F737MAX

[PavlinS 179]

You guys, if ORBX textures work in v6 I do not see a reason P3D to do anything. 

[GCBraun 2,440]

11 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

You guys, if ORBX textures work in v6 I do not see a reason P3D to do anything. 

That is the bare minimum expectation, I would say and would only be enough to push some V5 users to upgrade. It won’t bring anyone back. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by GCBraun

[PavlinS 179]

5 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

That is the bare minimum expectation, I would say and would only be enough to push some V5 users to upgrade. It won’t bring anyone back. 

Ya, that's what you say, but I am not on the same opinion. Stop comparing, dear. Scenery is 50 % of an simulator when the planes are perfect and flyable. If there is no flyable planes scenery does not matter. So, my opinion is that airplane flight dynamics / control surfaces are a lot important then landclass scenery with unflyable flight model. Good luck on your FS2020 endeavors, this is P3D, P3D is not the same. Stop asking for free scenery, dear. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by PavlinS

[GCBraun 2,440]

5 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

Ya, that's what you say, but I am not on the same opinion. Stop comparing, dear. Scenery is 50 % of a simulator when the planes are perfect and flyable. If there is no flyable planes scenery does not matter. So, my opinion is that airplane flight dynamics / control surfaces are a lot important then landclass scenery with unflyable flight model. Good luck on your FS2020 endeavors, this is P3D, P3D is not the same. Stop asking for free scenery, dear. 

I am not your “dear” and I use all available flight simulators, not only MSFS. None of them have “unflyable flight models”, by the way. Seeing your videos on other topics, perhaps the problem is somewhere else. 

[PavlinS 179]

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

I am not your “dear” and I use all available flight simulators, not only MSFS. None of them have “unflyable flight models”, by the way. Seeing your videos on other topics, perhaps the problem is somewhere else. 

Well, then, you are silly. Because I can tell you that SSG 747 can never be PMDG 747. Good luck. Byeeee. 

 

Just to clarify - for 47 pages in this thread people did not stopped to compare Prepar3D to every possible flight simulator platform on the planet, as I already said numbers of times this is Prepar3D forum. Stop Shoving your agenda about other simulators here to us, users / developers of Prepar3D. It's completely unfair, because we do not go to your simulators forums to shove our simulator down your throat. Have some freaking respect. 

 

Prepar3D is simulator not about scenery, it is about the whole experience, that's why PMDG / QW / FsLabs and other companies are offering their planes here. A person that cares for scenery comparing Prepar3D to MSFS2020 and even with XP12 is not the same mind as us. We care for the whole experience, that's why we have ORBX landclass / photoreal True earth and region graphics, which, specially for me, are quite enough and I do not need anything further. This is a thread about the future of our platform, a platform we use and a platform we enjoy. Comparing it with other products is pointless. We have our agenda, you have yours. Stick to it. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by PavlinS

[GCBraun 2,440]

1 hour ago, PavlinS said:

Well, then, you are silly. Because I can tell you that SSG 747 can never be PMDG 747. Good luck. Byeeee. 

Please stop the name calling. If you are comparing airplanes, perhaps try comparing something like the Felis 747-200 or the HotStart 650 with a similar aircraft that's available on P3D...good luck on that. 

 

1 hour ago, PavlinS said:

Prepar3D is simulator not about scenery, it is about the whole experience, that's why PMDG / QW / FsLabs and other companies are offering their planes here.

Not sure in which world you are living on, but all of those developers have either released, or announced products for MSFS. PMDG has pretty much stopped supporting P3D. You really need to go out more...

 

1 hour ago, PavlinS said:

We care for the whole experience, that's why we have ORBX landclass / photoreal True earth and region graphics, which, specially for me, are quite enough and I do not need anything further. This is a thread about the future of our platform

If you don't need anything further, what's the point discussing the future of the platform? There is still a handful of users happy with FS9 and FSX as well. Personally, I am quite interested in P3D's future and, being an open minded user of *all* simulator platforms, am hoping that V6 will bring something that can compete with the other offerings.

Edited April 6, 2023 by GCBraun

[PavlinS 179]

8 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Please stop the name calling. If you are comparing airplanes, perhaps try comparing something like the Felis 747-200 or the HotStart 650 with a similar aircraft that's available on P3D...good luck on that. 

 

Not sure in which world you are living on, but all of those developers have either released, or announced products for MSFS. PMDG has pretty much stopped supporting P3D. You really need to go out more...

 

If you don't need anything further, what's the point on discussing the future of the platform? There is still a handful of users happy with FS9 and FSX as well. Personally, I am quite interested in P3D's future and, being an open minded user of *all* simulator platforms, am hoping that V6 will bring something that can compete with the other offerings.

I should apologize for that, but your 

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

I am not your “dear” and I use all available flight simulators, not only MSFS. None of them have “unflyable flight models”, by the way. Seeing your videos on other topics, perhaps the problem is somewhere else. 

was peculiarly rude to say. I don't care are you open minded or not, since this is prepar3D forum, here we discuss Prepar3d AND NOTHING ELSE. There is hangar chat, feel free to express your opinions about other simulators there and compare them to this one. What you had did in the last two comments were complete compare of Prepar3D to other simulators,  that is not open mind, you were clearly saying, that Prepar3D is behind those platforms. Saying that every sim is good when it comes to control surfaces, I personally watched a person using the SSG 747, there was so many thing to criticize in comparing of the P3D PMDG 747 that my comment became a lecture there. 

As I said, stop comparing your other simulators to ours. I am not " open minded" like you, I don't wanna hear it, because to me this is pointless and does not contribute anything to the subject at hand. 

[gyzmonfishball 16]

Can you both please stop with the arguing? Everyone is entitled to his opinion but please don't take everything personally. This kind of back and forth is not very productive.

I like reading about the speculations/opinions on this thread and would not like to see another one get locked by admins.

[Daube 374]

  

16 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

As I said, stop comparing your other simulators to ours. I am not " open minded" like you, I don't wanna hear it, because to me this is pointless and does not contribute anything to the subject at hand. 

 

The thing is, what you want or don't want to hear doesn't really matter 🙂

We are discussing about the future of P3D, the features that are missing or lacking, and that would be good to add or improve. You're not in a position to force some censorship such as "don't talk about other sims, I don't want to hear about other sims...". The point here is precisely to list the things that other sims might or might not have, and tell which ones we wish would be added to a next version of P3D.

As an example, I mentioned earlier the lack of decent refueling, which is kind of surprising considering P3D is developed by a military plane maker. I would then compare to DCS which has a "not too bad" refuelling, and then wish that LM would both implement such a system per default (with appropriate boom/basket/lines handling), and also improve the multiplayer experience to make it more easy and accurate for planes positions and animations. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Daube