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Been watching "Dogfights" and am gonna say it.....ACES?

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I can't hold back from speaking out any longer....the mouthgaurd, leather straps and cast iron buckles and ankle braces attached to the wall be danged!!!!Many of the flight sim enthusiasts here, and, I'm sure, the ACES developers themselves must be watching the "Dogfights" series on The History Channel. Is this a great great series or what??! I mean, it REALLY gets the ol' blood pumping!The graphics....amazing.....the stories....remarkable.......the urge to re-create on one's own PC......UNDENIABLE!!!!And the graphics themselves actually aren't too darn far away from sims we have now....FSX in particular methinks.....And I know that a number of AvSim members may not have an interest in this - and that's perfectly cool and OK because I'm going to suggest it be done in such a way it's a moot point for those not interested anyway.....ACES, MS Marketing, anyone........when the dust settles on SP1, and the later DX10 update for Vista FSX users, and the upcoming "FSX Adrenaline" release......can we please please please please oh gawd pretty please have a combat sim effort?For the last 4+ years (going on 5 now) I've been lucky enough to involved with a very successful virtual squadron of dedicated CFS3 enthusiasts, and our group is probably one of the sole surviving original CFS3 squads around...we formed on Thanksgiving on the even of the original CFS3 release back in 2002 and since then we've been through the salad days of CFS3, engaging in many squad matches and ladder tournaments, as well as the slim, dog days of CFS3 now as more players have gone to IL2/Pacific Fighters. We've seen the multiplayer environment rise to glory and slowly fade with the ebb tide. But there is STILL a core group of dedicated users out there, and we're online every weekend defending the CFS3 skies n our FW190's and BF109's...because ACES gave us a great sim and we're loyal :) ...or something like that!And when you wath something like "Dogfights" and then go fire up FSX, you REALLY SEE the possibilities. However the only way to engage in any of the WWII Pacific Theater or other WWII scenarios (with stock planes) is to go to a competitor's combat flight sim....which doesn't have the "feel" and looks that we're used to and expect, although it's feature-rich on other very tempting ways.Looking back at other FS versions, and specifically CFS series that were based on the same engine, such as CFS2, what was great in those versions was being able to import the other scenery and aircraft from FS series and engage someone in any other part of the world in any plane....we're SO CLOSE to that in FSX, especially now that the online flying is smooth as silk like CFS3, and unlike that in previous FS series. An add-on that simply expanded on FSX in terms of ading Air Combat capability using the existing product would be beuatiful and seems a natural evolutionary step, if we had things such as:- The ability for people to "activate" an Air Combat option so they could enable weapons AND damage modeling....that way, people who don't want this sort of thing can just un-check that box and fly around in the multiplayer environment unaffected- The addition of an "Air Combat" section to the GameSpy lobby - possibly even restict those folks with the air combat option to that section.... or have another lobby entirely seperate.- The ability to support missions and "Capture the flag" scenarios - and the ability to land, rearm and refuel which was lost in CFS3 but seems perfectly cabale to (at least refuel in) FSX and the FS series.- Lastly, and most importantly, the ability to TURN OFF the "Aircraft Mismatch" feature as it works in CFS3 so people with add-on aircraft can join a foray if the host so chooses! This really killed the attempts to use add-on, non-stock aircraft in CFS3, even when the differences were only minor (such as tailwheel big fixes that have no impact on fair play).I know this is a GA and Commercial sim crowd here for the most part, but believe me, oh we need a new combat sim product and FSX has so much potential. We've been waiting. We've been loyal. We BELIEVE in what ACES could do.Again, once the dust is settled on existing commitments and updates, think of the "Dogfights" series and imagine the impact of a commercial coming on the tube in the middle of the show, showing ALMOST the same capability in an FSX add-on! Phones would be ringin' off the hook and operators would be flooded with calls as they are standing by! OooooOOoooOOooo baby where's my credit card!!!! OK I've said it....and I know this doesn't have anything to do with Airbuses or 747's or Beechcraft Barons. And it's expressed in such a way that those who have no interest would not be impacted. But is IS FSX-related and felt it just needed sayin'. Thank you for listening.Oh.....trivia point.......The early versions of FS (2 and 3) actually had a "Red Baron" entertainment option built-in.....so this realy isn't a new feature of FS, as much as it is returning an option that was yanked long ago......veterans, you can back me up on this! So, when I say we've been patient....we've been really patient... ;)

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Yeah, apparently Microsoft has done some market research and found that when people think of action and flight simulators, they think of spotting elephants in an ultralight or dropping flourbags on targets. Air combat is soooo boring compared to those action packed activities.

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>Get the 'real-deal', Falcon4!A fine sim to be sure, but not the point. We could discuss the pro's and cons of existing air combat sims 'til the cows come home, and that's not what this is about. I like them all and pretty much already own them all. None of them use worldwide scenery and have the open architecture and payware/freeware support of the FS series. Falcon 4 is great if you want jets. IL2/PF is great if you want WWII Pacific and Ukraine props. Ol' Red Baron 3D is even great if you want WWI. And heck the modder crowd for CFS3 has other stuff but it doesn't apply to online play unless you're part of an extremely slim and adventurous clique (or like flying in empty rooms). And all the above limit where in the world you can do your thing.Just saying FSX (when updated) should make a very decent platform for expansion in this area, and imagine the possibilities....it's time for a new generation, to do things right, and the timing and marketing opportunities seem ripe.True, it's been brought up before...and will be brought up again which should tell someone something. And to be perfectly honest I just had to take my turn to cry and plead over it. :)The FS series is remarkable in that it simulates many different kinds of flight in anything from hot air balloons and Wright Fliers to SR-71's and Boing 777's....anywhere in the world at any time in any weather. It's just missing one lil' thing......one lil' very engaging aspect......

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In my case that is absolutely true-I have found shoot em ups regardless of airplanes or 3d shoot em up games not interesting at all (for me-understand others could feel otherwise). Different strokes for different folks. Nice to have choice. :-) (I've tried 'em all-Falcon, cfi,ii , iii, aces over pacific etc-they all collected dust in my case.)I'll take whales like I just flew over in Hawaii (for real) anytime...find those spectacular! I just got back from two weeks in Maui and the Maui adventure in fsx is right on-the whales are right where they should be!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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If you want to shoot guns and blow stuff up (and who doesn't, from time to time ;-) ) try Pacific Fighters, Falcon 4, IL2 , or even BF1942/2/2142. In FS, it's never going to happen.regards,Jeff

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Which is a shame, Jeff....FS9 and FSX would make great sims in which to base an air combat sim, especially when you consider the quality of some of the warplane add-ons....the Spitfires, Messerschmitts, etc from Shockwaves are truely outstanding and would make for a very realistic combat flight sim.

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Mmmm....just think of the visceral "boot player" function possibilities in multiplayer. Third runway incursion in a row? Buzzed the tower again? Being a general nuisance? Oh, lookie what we have here... sidewinders! Fox two! :)"You have been kicked by: HOST Method: AIM-9M with 50kg annular blast fragmentation warhead"Agreed, will probably never happen, and that *really* is too bad. ;)

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Me too. I still use CFS2 occasionally. Imagine the havoc you could wreak with a Spitfire in an otherwise orderly vatsim session at a busy airport!! Cue the Wagner...regards,jeff

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I dont think I'd want a combat flight sim that literally took place in FSX. But i'd want one that made use of its global scenery so that I could play long range missions or stage missions anywhere. I've always wanted to try my hand at something like flying a B-1B from Diego Garcia on a low level strike at an Iranian nuclear facility or a B-2 hitting North Korea from Guam, but combat flight sims usually don't give you the territory to do that sort of thing.

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Lately we are flying a lot multi player with the Shockwave WWII planes. And i have to say it is a blast ! FSX has far more potential than any other sim and it would satisfy a lot of sim pilots to let some steam off from time to time. I wouldn't say no to some action hooked to the fire button... ;-)Heiko

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Oleg Maddox's next title (he did Il Sturmovik) is Storm of War: Battle of Britain. It was already delayed from the fall so I expect it to be out by the end of the year. While fsx looks fantastic with shockwave's wings of power, and ACES should IMO definitely make a combat sim with the fsx engine, you won't have to wait too long for an up to date combat sim. It's always puzzled me that realistc air combat games are not so popular.

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>Oh.....trivia point.......The early versions of FS (2 and 3)>actually had a "Red Baron" entertainment option>built-in.....so this realy isn't a new feature of FS, as much>as it is returning an option that was yanked long>ago......veterans, you can back me up on this! So, when I say>we've been patient....we've been really patient... ;)The feature was in FS98 or FS2002 as I have both and remember it being on system. Have to check later which one.

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I think a new CFS is long overdue & it does make sense to base it on the FSX engine. While there other combat sims on the horizon such as Oleg's Storm of War Battle of Britain, GT's Knights of the Sky and Shockwave's Flying Tigers and others, MS sims win for me with their open architecture policy.CFS3 has been around for a while and still sells well as a mid price sim, as witness all the new members at Sim-Outhouse. Freeware CFS3 add-ons such as OFF and the forthcoming Mediterranean Air War (MAW)have given CFS3 a lease of new life. These two add-ons stand as testimony as to what can be achieved with an open architecture policy. However the CFS3 engine is showing its age and CFS3 has always been limited in comparison to FS9 & FSX as to how much could be modded, e.g. designers can't create new instruments and new animations for CFS3 as they can for FS.Being primarily a warbird & vintage aircraft modeler myself, and enjoying creating for FSX, it would be great to be able to achieve the same in a combat sim.

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>Hi,>>This option/feature has been brought up before and and answer>has been: no, not going to happen, no, from within the FS>line.> >Jim>>http://www.hifisim.com/>Active Sky V6 Development Team >Active Sky V6 Proud Supporter>HiFi Beta Team>Radar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/>AirSource Member: http://www.air-source.us/>FSEconomy Member:http://www.fseconomy.com/There are two specific things in response to that:1 - http://blogs.technet.com/p-12c_pilot/archi.../20/combat.aspx"However, I am very confident that the CFS franchise will come back sometime and many of the "platform building" enhancements we have made and are continuing to make on the FS engine are all steps that will make that possible."2 - SimConnect. I know some of the guys at SimOuthouse have already played around with this, but I'm working on a SimConnect program right now that attaches a "missile" (it's actually the cargo pod from the missions) and a tracking radar for AI inserted planes, so you can lock on and fire the missile at a target. This is just some research I'm doing, but there's no reason why this couldn't be expanded even more.

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Absolutely, Geofa....and your opinion is fully respectable. There are some that this kind of thing doesn't flip their switch, which is why I've never thought it should be a "built-in" thing, but certainly offered as an option, add-on or co-product because there are many who do (the percentage of responses here discussing other combat sims bears some partial evidence of that).I can't help thinking that it might even make the skies in the "regular" online flight lobbies even more peaceful - those kids buzzing the tower in Extra 300's and other frustrated fighter pilots have nowhere else to go right now, and chaos ensues to a degree (I was recently helping out some new folks with an online bush flight in the Maule when a kid in an SR-71 took half the flight out on the runway by landing unannounced...folks like that need a home where they can be "educated" properly ;) )And you know what's interesting? Over the years my own group has remained in size of about 20 pilots with an average age of 45 - not kids, but kids at heart I suppose. Every so often when we gain a new member by way of meeting mature and interesting people online, there's always a consistent pattern that slowly emerges when they see what we're about...."What is this FS9 you guys also fly? Helicopters? Bush flying? Instrument approaches? Add-on aircraft and scenery? Tell me more!". Pretty much in every case they all end up flying BOTH the civilian and combat sims, and having an even better time expanding their horizons. That's what really makes it worthwhile for us, seeing those lights go on and introducing them to another, bigger world. But very rarely does anyone transtion over 100% to civil flight simming in FS9/FSX becuase, well, there's that "itch" to scratch, and the comraderie of the group, and all. Anyway I guess it's just my own informal demographic observation.

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You're not alone. I often wondered why MS doesn't make a CFS add-on for first FS9 and now FSX. It could be an add-on package sort of like their upcoming Adrenaline package (which doesn't interest me much). With FSX having the ability to have missions, I think that now is as good a time as any for a FSX/CFS port.

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'Zactly. Egg-zactly. Which is why I plan on purchasing Adrenaline as soon as it's available. I already participate in online air racing in FS9 via PROPS at WestCoastATC, which is fantastic and more fun than you can normally have with your clothes on, so I don't exactly need that aspect of Adrenaline but am dang sure gonna support the FSX series because I truly believe in the expansion possibilities of this platform and am going to do every bit of my part to show it's worth doing. ;)

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:) Too funny! And too true! :)My group occasionally hosts what we call "River Races" in CFS3, which is basically a semi-organized rat race up and down a long particular stretch of winding river around specific landmarks. Since we do this in semi-open rooms so some of the general public can get a taste, we usually have one member acting as kind of a "Race Announcer / CAP flight"....works very well for dealing with the occasional aircraft coming in unnanounced with unknown intentions! The Hispano 20MM or Mk108 30MM ban/discipline method does have a fulfilling measure of merit to it! ;)

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>I dont think I'd want a combat flight sim that literally took>place in FSX. But i'd want one that made use of its global>scenery so that I could play long range missions or stage>missions anywhere. I've always wanted to try my hand at>something like flying a B-1B from Diego Garcia on a low level>strike at an Iranian nuclear facility or a B-2 hitting North>Korea from Guam, but combat flight sims usually don't give you>the territory to do that sort of thing.There ya go. You got the point straight and perfect! Sure, there is a new-this or coming-that combat flight sim but it's all still restrictive to one area of interest. With such an excellent base engine, why in the world do we want to continue buying someone else's product with closed architecture when we literally have the world at our fingertips and an ongoing aircraft selection. And each new sim represents new key commands to memorize, new flight model quirks to get used to, and wasted HD space on landclass, textures and scenery that are already present.The trick would be to implement it in such a way that it wouldn't cross paths with the civil stuff (in that I mean, restrict online usage as indicated in my first post). No one wants an F-15 blazing through their bush flight with missiles being fired.Possibilities would be endless....SPAD vs. Fokker over France.....Wings Of Power missions, using the camera views to move around to different gunner positions in the B-17 as a flight of multiplayer FW190's threaten.....Pacific missions using the carriers in FSX (woohoo!!!) and go duke it out in Leyte Gulf......and helicopters! Fire up a UH-1 Gunship and an observation helo like Richard Frady's OH-6A Cayuse to make a "pink team" and go on the hunt in the A Shau valley with a friend, just look out for the Mig-17's...call in some F-4's for support if needed....or fire up Kirk Olsonn's F-86 and mix it up with Michel Migaud and Jean Pierre Bourgeois' excellent Mig-15 over Korea.....throw in a B-29 mission for good measure....Someone stop me, I'm going to have an embolism!!!!http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Torq/FS9/Mig-15_07.jpgAnd the heavy-iron non-combat pilots can even deliver supplies in their C-17's or C-47's or whatever they like to support an online campaign-type scenario.....I know I'm dreaming but just think of the possibilities! And what the online community would be like with just a bit more interaction and meaning behind the ongoing flights....a guy can dream can't he? ;)I'm ready to take off at dawn in an SBD Dauntless.....it'll be a tough mission but I'll stay on your wing the whole way and we'll hit 'em hard....are ya with me? :)

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Love that site, Jeff! :)Yep and I don't think CFS1 will run in Vista either (maybe it will?). 'Cause, speaking of memories, I dug up this ol' screenie....in CFS1 you could import FS98 aircraft and the sim would assign a default weapon and damage profile to 'em. I know this is silly and represents the lunatic fringe of the idea but hey, if an FS98 Beech Baron can tangle with a CFS1 Spit due to the common flight sim engine shared between FS98 and CFS1, well....imagine what we could do now....http://com-central.net/modules/POTD/pictur...-BeechCraft.jpg(yes I know the above pic is silly but don't think for a minute that was an easy dogfight! Note smoke trailing from the heavily-battered Baron. Oh yeah....a friend with experience in that conflict reminds me that Beech Baron's were used to fly radio intercept missions in Vietnam....qualifying them as a "warbird" of sorts? ;) )

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