X-Plane 12 preview video for the A330 default aircraft

[uwespeed 501]

1 hour ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

It has been exactly 0 days since another thread was derailed.

I finally lost my faith in this "community", I swear I have seen less heated fights in PCMR community and other heavily divided groups. I am not going to name names, but it is either people who gain a huge satisfaction by calling MSFS an inaccurate "game" (they use the term "game" in a derogatory way) and downplay Asobo's work or people who gain a huge satisfaction by downplaying Laminar's by making people "admit" whatever aspect of flight simulation is more important and having a sick interest in them going out of business. If there is ONE thing these extreme X-Plane and MSFS followers agree (I know sounds impossible, right?) and be really happy about, it is likely P3D's death and its developers going out of business, which really says a lot about both sides. I always want to think that there is no way this is how the entire "community" is and that there must be a silent majority who appreciates all sides but I started to lose my faith in that too.

Sometimes I regret getting into other civilian simulators and not staying in FlightGear, at least they had a proper community.

 

44 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

I've seen just as pointless fights in the FlightGear community as I've seen in here. Not on a daily basis mind you, but enough to lose all willingness to get involved in the overall project.

 

38 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Well yeah, but at least it is not in a daily basis there. While here every single word not allowed thread is being locked and derailed. It has been almost 2 years since MSFS was released and the drama is still going. I just hope FlightGear and its new HDR pipeline draws more developers into the platform.

The question is, why "the usual suspects" are flooding the XP forums to spray their poison? * We hardly see the opposite way. Why? Because XP'ers don't care so much what Asobo is doing. If they succeed - why not? As written elsewhere, it might (or to be more precise - it will 😉) even bring new customers to XP.
And have we seen anyone here, talking and wishing P3D death?

* We saw/see exactly the same behaviour in many other forums, where MS is involved or part of the market. Internet Explorer/Edge ** vs. Netscape/Firefox (nowadays probably Chrome - I haven't followed these forums for longer time), MS Office vs. OpenOffice/LibreOffice, Windows vs. Linux, Outlook vs. I don't know, and so on and so on.
Therefrom I have taken over the term "MS goon squad" - it's not my invention.

** Just currently I've read that MS Edge is putting obstacles in users way, to prevent them to change over to a different browser. Only with profound knowledge or specialized tools - which have to be downloaded separately - you can circumvent this behaviour. 2 months ago, when I got my new PC (with Win 11 preinstalled) I wanted to install LibreOffice - MS simply blocked the download. Same with something else, I don't remember any more, what. If I would treat my customers this way ...
Although I wanted to keep Win 11 (as I paid for it), simply for having it on the HDD if I might need it someday ... I completely wiped it (but that's a different story).

[Biology 1,347]

20 minutes ago, uwespeed said:

The question is, why "the usual suspects" are flooding the XP forums to spray their poison? * We hardly see the opposite way. Why? Because XP'ers don't care so much what Asobo is doing. If they succeed - why not? As written elsewhere, it might (or to be more precise - it will 😉) even bring new customers to XP.

There is a saying in my country - "do not act like kids to kids"

Or here is a universal one - "two wrongs do not make a right"

So my question is simple, why "the usual suspects" keep spreading negativity about X-Plane in every thread? And why "the other usual suspects" keep retaliating with the same behavior thinking what they do is justified? There is no right here.

20 minutes ago, uwespeed said:

And have we seen anyone here, talking and wishing P3D death?

Oh believe me, yes, absolutely yes. As said, this is likely the only thing both X-Plane and MSFS community agree on and like doing 😂

Edited January 19, 2022 by BiologicalNanobot

[mSparks 2,088]

1 hour ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Oh believe me, yes, absolutely yes.

In here? I cant say Ive ever even seen P3D mentioned in here and never heard anything more about it than "its expensive" and pmdg make a couple of good/great (expensive) airliners for it.

I did pull up the P3D SDK when MSFS was in alpha but decided it wasnt going to be worth the resource needed to do anything with it.

XP was never known for its airliners, its claim to fame was a certified C172 as default, global scenery and BET mainly for developers.

Leading with the A330 in what is only one of a new fleet is pretty symbolic. Can we stick with that for now?

Edited January 19, 2022 by mSparks

[jcomm 5,950]

6 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Arrrgghhh!

Ya' know, if you had accepted that 2080 I offered so long ago, I would have probably had you first in mind when I gave away my Rift-s about a month or so ago... 😛

A Rift ? Given away ? Wow.... I really struggled to resist the 2080 because I was getting away from the simming vice, but I was won by the impulse just a few months later, and although the main purpose is far from being it's application right now, my new rig is ready now for XP12, and in the meanwhile doing GREAT! in IL-2 and DCS 🙂

Hey, guys, XP and MFS are toys compared to IL2 ! Come fight the Greatest WW2 Virtual Fighter Pilot there ! ... if you have the b@lls... 😜

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by jcomm

[uwespeed 501]

4 hours ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

There is a saying in my country - "do not act like kids to kids"

Or here is a universal one - "two wrongs do not make a right"

So my question is simple, why "the usual suspects" keep spreading negativity about X-Plane in every thread? And why "the other usual suspects" keep retaliating with the same behavior thinking what they do is justified? There is no right here.

Oh believe me, yes, absolutely yes. As said, this is likely the only thing both X-Plane and MSFS community agree on and like doing 😂

Quite simple - imagine, someone intrudes into your house and sprays poison. What would you do?
Fun fact - actually not funny at all - and really true (I even can prove it with a link, if you like - as I always can prove, what I claim here 😉): exactly while I wrote this answer, I heard in my local radios news that in a school near me, some pupils have sprayed irritant gas in the school building. So ... what to do? "Don't be this picky, don't bother!"? There IS some wrong and right in such cases.

 

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

In here? I cant say Ive ever even seen P3D mentioned in here and never heard anything more about it than "its expensive" and pmdg make a couple of good/great (expensive) airliners for it.

Indeed, I haven't seen such thing as well, at least in the last months, where I returned into this forum.

[Biology 1,347]

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

In here? I cant say Ive ever even seen P3D mentioned in here and never heard anything more about it than "its expensive" and pmdg make a couple of good/great (expensive) airliners for it.

In most places - sometimes here, sometimes elsewhere. Either case it was just to make a point about how toxic the "community" has gotten these days as the only thing they can agree on is how bad another simulator is. The fact that you aren't doing it doesn't mean no one else is doing it.

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

Leading with the A330 in what is only one of a new fleet is pretty symbolic. Can we stick with that for now?

Absolutely. It is not only the leading the upcoming new aircraft, but looks like it is going to be the flagship aircraft of X-Plane 12 too. They even added (proper) failures and related ECAM messages, which is something they usually don't do with their aircraft, this time they are going for a surprising amount of detail for a default aircraft.

Edited January 19, 2022 by BiologicalNanobot

[uwespeed 501]

9 hours ago, rka said:

Thanks for your thoughtful and contributing comments.

Of course I expected you to answer exactly this ...

 

9 hours ago, jarmstro said:

LOL!  Nice try.😀

Well ... ignoring facts doesn't let them going away. If you can prove it wrong, please do so. But please in a different thread about flight modeling. However, we have gone through this already various times, and the result was always indisputable. But I'm happy to guide you in the right direction and to brush up your memory, in case it's needed.

Edited January 19, 2022 by uwespeed

[Biology 1,347]

17 minutes ago, uwespeed said:

Quite simple - imagine, someone intrudes into your house and sprays poison. What would you do?

Bad analogy - one poses actual threat to human life, one doesn't. A better analogy would be kids fighting and when they are confronted one of them telling "but they started the fight, not me". Everyone should quit it at this point and everyone is at fault.

Edited January 19, 2022 by BiologicalNanobot

[Biology 1,347]

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Hey, guys, XP and MFS are toys compared to IL2 !

You really deserve the nickname "The Uninstaller" 😂

I really love how IL2 and DCS looks and behaves, too bad that military flight simulation has never been my thing.

 

Back to the A330 - the level of detail they are going for a default aircraft is quite exciting. I normally don't fly default aircraft but this might be an exception - does anyone know if there could be a way to replace the FMC (essentially Zibo-ifying it) while keeping other systems intact?

Edited January 19, 2022 by BiologicalNanobot

[Gulfstream 416]

10 hours ago, GoranM said:

I really wish people would stop prefacing their posts with "I have X qualifications". There are CPL's who like MSFS.  There are CPL's who like X-Plane.  Qualifications are a moot point.  We had a CL650 pilot, who flies that aircraft for a living, who helped us with the CL650 for X-Plane, who wouldn't touch MSFS if you paid him.  Qualifications are irrelevant.  Enjoy whatever floats your boat.

 

I'm not doing it show off, I say it because I can tell accurate flight models because I to used to fly airplanes by the numbers all day for work.

It gives more weight to judging the flight model if you are only a simulator pilot, unless you are extremely familiar with the performance numbers.  Some people are, especially aircraft designers, even if they haven't flown.  But way too many people say it "feels" more accurate and such, which I won't stand for.

A lot of people complain that in MSFS, the plane yaws around a little too much at cruise.   But so do real aircraft, especially ones without yaw dampers.

To each their own.

 

[mSparks 2,088]

48 minutes ago, jcomm said:

if you have the b@lls... 😜

 

12 months on and trying to reliably land the spitfire after a mission is still on my todo list. 

It still kills me most of the time (realistically aiui). Another aircraft ive not got round to taking for a spin on the new rig (someone reminded me just before I left for skiing I fixed up the default S76 - thats an absolute gem of a heli).

6 minutes ago, uwespeed said:

There IS some wrong and right in such cases.

The main problem is that it is very hard if not impossible to tell the difference between one of the hundreds of bored Microsoft/Asobo employees spouting the nonsense corporate told them when they took the job, and people just blindly repeating the nonsense corporate told its employees when they took the job.

Plus they are all victims tbh. Otherwise just normal people bored on the day job.

1 minute ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

either case it was just to make a point about how toxic the "community" has gotten these days

See above, you remember this right:

P3D never ever stooped so low into the cess pit of lies, there was no real cross over (before) between xplane default C172 + army of half finished planes and the P3D/PMDG tag team.

That has now changed completely - and the dust hasn't settled yet.

[GoranM 3,772]

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

I'm not doing it show off, I say it because I can tell accurate flight models because I to used to fly airplanes by the numbers all day for work.

I know you're not doing it to show off.  Which is why I mentioned I know CPL's and ATPL's who wouldn't touch anything other than X-Plane.  There is an ATPL in here, who has his own opinions on how much better X-Plane is with regards to the flight model, (Janov) who also flies by the numbers.  Where would you put his opinion?  Even though he's Airbus and Boeing typed?  

If you like MSFS, no one is stopping you.  If you think it's more "right", great.  There will be others who disagree.  The important thing is, you have a choice of forums to go to, where you can discuss what you think is right.  If you choose to go to the forums where you disagree with the majority, expect rebuttals.

Personally, it'd be nice around here if we can talk about all things X-Plane, without people coming in screaming "X-Plane isn't as good as MSFS".  Sadly, that day hasn't arrived yet.

Edited January 19, 2022 by GoranM

[Murmur 3,944]

41 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

But way too many people say it "feels" more accurate and such, which I won't stand for.

So, you are a real pilot and yet can't tell the difference between the basic in-flight stability parameters of, say, the default C172 in XP11 vs MSFS?

Haven't you noticed that e.g. the pitch stability (short period frequency and damping) in MSFS is way off, while it is remarkably accurate in XP11, compared to real life?

Mind you, not that XP has always been as good as it is now. Infact, up until XP10, its default aircraft felt a bit similar to how MSFS ones feel, way too twitchy and undamped. But XP flight model has remarkably improved since then.

[mSparks 2,088]

23 minutes ago, GoranM said:

If you like MSFS, no one is stopping you

The give away for me when these pop up is gauging "flight model" on:

"performance numbers"

rather than do the speedbrakes work correctly, does a safe landing make or break on correctly following the defined engine out procedure, does the airframe respond to control inputs correctly at different airspeeds etc etc.

MSFS marketing confused all the things the flight model is responsible for with the things the texture artist defines. Makes it easy to spot people who were drinking to much "The CEO got his PPL so he knows planez" cool aid without thinking about the actual ingredients.

 

[jarmstro 2,405]

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

The give away for me when these pop up is gauging "flight model" on:

"performance numbers"

rather than do the speedbrakes work correctly, does a safe landing make or break on correctly following the defined engine out procedure, does the airframe respond to control inputs correctly at different airspeeds etc etc.

MSFS marketing confused all the things the flight model is responsible for with the things the texture artist defines. Makes it easy to spot people who were drinking to much "The CEO got his PPL so he knows planez" cool aid without thinking about the actual ingredients.

 

Yes that's a very good point. Personally I take it as read that X-Plane has the superior flight model. Can I notice it? Not really but there again I am not a pilot. Are there any that can notice it?  Well again, going by the comments on both forums, not really. It seems to be down to personal choice of simulator and prejudice.

For my part I'm guessing that as far as realism goes the flight model itself is less significant than the fact that I have a cheap and nasty Logitech yoke. (I really must invest in something better!)

Edited January 20, 2022 by jarmstro