7 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

My first real landing of a PA28 followed many years using FS and XPlane. The instructor was amazed at the accuracy of my circuit, trimming, power, descent and flare.  The landing had a bounce but otherwise OK.  I was sweating buckets because it was real.

In many respects, a real aircraft is easier to fly than a sim aircraft (given reasonable weather and no emergencies).  It is more stable and trimming is easier.  Of course there is much to learn, but I disagree with your daughter-in-laws statement for every person who is an expert in a home flight sim.  It works the other way too, with experienced real world pilots crashing in the sim 🙂

Hi,

 

I hear ya! First time out of KISP (American Flyers), the instructor was also impressed with my yoke, throttle, trim control. That is 100% thanks to Flight Simulators!!!

If I flew a glider IRL like I sometimes do in the sim I wouldn't be dead long ago mostly because having started flying IRL I transposed to simming the very same principles and practices. All I miss sometimes is the replication of some effects, specially during takeoff and landing, that IRL make me use a lot more the controls of the glider, but I would probably get a satisfactory performance in the sim should these effects be correctly modeled there too.

If I flew in the sim like I fly IRL I would be crashing most of the time on my takeoffs & landings, mostly because of the limitations imposed by control forces not being cporrectly replicated in the simming hardware I use.

Yet, after flying in the sim and flying IRL, both can promote good practices in terms of how to fly each the other. I'd safely say that I've gained proficiency flying real glider tasks using simulators like Condorsoaring or SilentWings in terms of tactical and strategic options for real life x-country rides.

Another good application of simulators, even desktop, would be trainning emmergenvcies, landing out, etc... provided the scenery matches as close as possible the real world.

Like someone wrote above, most of the time flying IRL is actually easier, more intuitive than in a desktop flight simnulator. I am tempted to try the VR experience that most say is "no way back", but it's so expensive 😕

Edited January 18, 20224 yr by jcomm

10 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Thank God LR have finally realised that what really matters is eye candy.

Are you deliberately trolling?  I honestly can't tell if you're just messing around or being serious.

No one at LR has ever said, nor will they ever say, "What really matters is eye candy".  The main focus, has been, and always will be, the flight model.  Bringing up the visuals is something they wanted to do for XP12, but it's never been "What really matters is eye candy."

 

8 hours ago, Murmur said:

So, FIRST you ask us what parts of the standard XP flight model were in need of improvement, and what were improved in the experimental flight model.

And THEN, when someone LINKS A YT VIDEO THAT EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED, you criticize it? 🤦‍♂️ 🤣

I worded it poorly. should have said noticed it. Do you seriously think I could tolerate listening to his blabberings for more than  thirty seconds?😀 No doubt you have the answer to my question in you head but are reluctant to divulge it,

8 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

My first real landing of a PA28 followed many years using FS and XPlane. The instructor was amazed at the accuracy of my circuit, trimming, power, descent and flare.  The landing had a bounce but otherwise OK.  I was sweating buckets because it was real.

In many respects, a real aircraft is easier to fly than a sim aircraft (given reasonable weather and no emergencies).  It is more stable and trimming is easier.  Of course there is much to learn, but I disagree with your daughter-in-laws statement for every person who is an expert in a home flight sim.  It works the other way too, with experienced real world pilots crashing in the sim 🙂

I do not think you and her disagree. What Natalie means is exactly as per your experience. You still required instruction for real world flight and when she was here for Christmas, let me tell you, her first shot at XP on my PC was hilarious!😂 I have no doubt you are correct. Real world flying is in many ways much easier.

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

Are you deliberately trolling?  I honestly can't tell if you're just messing around or being serious.

No one at LR has ever said, nor will they ever say, "What really matters is eye candy".  The main focus, has been, and always will be, the flight model.  Bringing up the visuals is something they wanted to do for XP12, but it's never been "What really matters is eye candy."

 

I have no doubt that LR consider the flight model to be of paramount importance. What I said was that they seem to have finally realised that to the majority of their user base it isn't. If you want proof of that consider how well XP12 would do if all it contained were amazing and ground breaking improvements to the flight model.

Edited January 19, 20224 yr by jarmstro

Long way to go before that competes with xplane. 

which has a long way to go before it competes with real life

But VR does get pretty close. (those are just old ones I had on my phone.)

For something like the A330 its actually the FMC people drool for rather than scenery or flight model, they dont really care about any of that (maybe less than I care about windows stuff). default xp fmc in the op went down like a lead balloon on discord.... go figure.

Edited January 19, 20224 yr by Ray Proudfoot
Quoted video of MSFS removed

32 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Long way to go before that competes with xplane. 

which has a long way to go before it competes with real life

But VR does get pretty close. (those are just old ones I had on my phone.)

For something like the A330 its actually the FMC people drool for rather than scenery or flight model, they dont really care about any of that (maybe less than I care about windows stuff). default xp fmc in the op went down like a lead balloon on discord.... go figure.

👍 The indomitable mSparks!  Yup, a long way to go.😀

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

What I said was that they seem to have finally realised that to the majority of their user base it isn't.

No.  You said...

"Thank God LR have finally realised that what really matters is eye candy.", but that's ok if you want to change your opinion.

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

If you want proof of that consider how well XP12 would do if all it contained were amazing and ground breaking improvements to the flight model.

Why would I need proof, when I agree with you.  Superior flight model and superior visuals.  Can't get any more realistic than physics based lighting.

Truly next gen.

I guess the only thing it won't have is streaming ortho.  But considering there is the melting buildings issue, being fully dependant on the servers staying online, I'd say many of us are happy to have all scenery stored locally.

Not to mention that every update LR issues, won't wipe the entire install off the hard drive and render all add ons useless.  As well as developers not having to deal with parts of the SDK closed off without notice after random updates.  (Having to issue refunds to people who's add ons have stopped working, is quite embarrassing, I have to say.)

Should be a great year for X-Plane.

 

Edited January 19, 20224 yr by GoranM

Wow that looks impressive! I can't wait for XP12 😄 

30 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

👍 The indomitable mSparks!  Yup, a long way to go.😀

yeah, because although they look similar.

It Doesnt support any operating system I use.

Heli flight model is non existent

it requires an internet connection to look similar.

The dev kit is a disaster and they made it basically impossible to fix any of the small but important details that ruin it for me.

There are two things I look forward to for XP12. The trees and the fmod sounds. new lighting will make me happy, but thats very much a "nice to have" as far as Im concerned (and LR, or they would have fixed the worst of XP11 lighting for XP11 - wish they did tbh, its the only obviously "new" thing in the OP video, they could have left us with not broken lighting in XP11 while we wait for XP12, it wouldnt have been a huge undertaking)

40 minutes ago, GoranM said:

No.  You said...

"Thank God LR have finally realised that what really matters is eye candy.", but that's ok if you want to change your opinion.

Why would I need proof, when I agree with you.  Superior flight model and superior visuals.  Can't get any more realistic than physics based lighting.

Truly next gen.

I guess the only thing it won't have is streaming ortho.  But considering there is the melting buildings issue, being fully dependant on the servers staying online, I'd say many of us are happy to have all scenery stored locally.

Not to mention that every update LR issues, won't wipe the entire install off the hard drive and render all add ons useless.  As well as developers not having to deal with parts of the SDK closed off without notice after random updates.  (Having to issue refunds to people who's add ons have stopped working, is quite embarrassing, I have to say.)

Should be a great year for X-Plane.

 

Im really pulling for XP team ! MSFS is a great sim as well, but the lack of serious  aircraft addons limits my interest in it. XP on the other hand has some of my favorite addons of all time. The SAAB one of them 🙂

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Truly next gen.

Current gen, but apart from that I agree. I have no doubt it will indeed be a great year for X-Plane. Next gen gaming is now assured thanks to Microsoft's latest acquisition and I have a feeling flight sims will benefit.

Edited January 19, 20224 yr by jarmstro

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

The main focus, has been, and always will be, the flight model.

I really don't think the main focus of XP 12 has been the flight model.

19 hours ago, jarmstro said:

.... X-Plane is not real life.

 

Nooooooo!!! Really??? As is the weather simulation, climate simulation, car crash simulation, ... All of them are - guess what - a simulation of reality, i.e. a more ore less accurate approximation of real life. Even reality is not always exactly the same. So ... reality is sometimes not real 😄 . Only MSFS 2020 with it's photogrammetry is - under all circumstances. I suspect, MSFS 2020 is more real that reality 🤣

 

19 hours ago, rka said:

Here:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Additional_Information/Flight_Model_Physics.htm

Oohhh 😯 . So many complicated formulas for so little result 😆.

 

15 hours ago, jcomm said:

Yet, after flying in the sim and flying IRL, both can promote good practices in terms of how to fly each the other. I'd safely say that I've gained proficiency flying real glider tasks using simulators like Condorsoaring or SilentWings in terms of tactical and strategic options for real life x-country rides.

Me too. Meanwhile I abandoned (active) gliding IRL, however I'm still club member. 2 years ago, when I asked a club mate, to fly with him, he was quite happy about it - I even hadn't to pay, as he had to get up his flight hours, so he invited me. That was around 10 years after I abandoned real gliding. And ... my mate was very surprised and asked me whether I practiced secretly in an other club. You can imagine my answer 😉.

 

26 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Next gen gaming is now assured thanks to Microsoft's latest acquisition ...

YESSS! You said it. Thanks! 😄  (I mean "game" ...)

Next gen (civilian) flight sim is ... you know, which one.

 

26 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

... and I have a feeling flight sims will benefit.

Probably not this wrong. Not only me, but also a lot of others first discover(ed) the MS title, because it's presented more prominent in the respective electronic markets etc.. However, when they get more serious ... you get it 😀.
I had some time ago a ... let's say ... discussion with a diehard MS fan, and he asked "these stubborn X-Planers to look over the rim of their tea cup." Well, that's what most of them did already - first discovered FS8/9/X and then ...