Take Off Rolls Difficult

[Rocky_53 1,594]

Is this just me, or is there some intrinsic issue with the inner workings of MSFS that make take offs just overly sensitive in the yaw axis. I know all about prop yaw and stuff, but I find it extremely difficult sometimes to keep most aircraft straight along the runway during ground rolls! The Kodiak on it's release I found, was really difficult and there was a hotfix that, amongst other things, I think I'm right in saying reduced this characteristic. I have read quite a lot of others' experiences saying similar things, but to date I have no definitive idea whether this is under investigation, whether it's an MSFS bug, whether it's modelled this way by design or whatever. Like I say, I know there is prop yaw, but IMO it seems to have been over modelled(?) and I'm interested in hearing some feedback and opinions on this. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Rockliffe

[177B 730]

One thing that really helps is good rudder pedals.

I use the TM TPR's they are expensive but super smooth and the brakes are just like in a real plane. I also have special VPK anti torque pedals for flying helis. Now helis is one place you learn about hand foot eye coordination.

I aways had  hard time with my old Saitek rudder pedals, sticky and not smooth.

You can also tune the settings in controls, this helps on some models. Lessen the effect in the middle.

In real life flying a lot of tail draggers ground loop because it is really hard to stay ahead of the plane. And that is the secret to good rudder work. anticipate what is needed. This is easier in a real plane, because you feel the yaw before you see it.

A lot of planes in real life are very tricky especially tail draggers with powerful engines. The P51 is famous for ground loops on takeoff. You have to slowly increase the power not just push it in or you will instantly ground loop, lots of videos out there showing that.

[Rocky_53 1,594]

36 minutes ago, 177B said:

One thing that really helps is good rudder pedals.

I use the TM TPR's they are expensive but super smooth and the brakes are just like in a real plane. I also have special VPK anti torque pedals for flying helis. Now helis is one place you learn about hand foot eye coordination.

I aways had  hard time with my old Saitek rudder pedals, sticky and not smooth.

You can also tune the settings in controls, this helps on some models. Lessen the effect in the middle.

In real life flying a lot of tail draggers ground loop because it is really hard to stay ahead of the plane. And that is the secret to good rudder work. anticipate what is needed. This is easier in a real plane, because you feel the yaw before you see it.

A lot of planes in real life are very tricky especially tail draggers with powerful engines. The P51 is famous for ground loops on takeoff. You have to slowly increase the power not just push it in or you will instantly ground loop, lots of videos out there showing that.

Thanks for the reply. Sure, no issue wirth the pedals, MFG Crosswinds. But I think I may try calibrating in MSFS rather than Axis and Ohs. I love A&O and the fact you can calibrate things in real time. I find it a really big faff to have to go into options, wait an eternity for the CP to open, make changes and then go back into the sim. But in this case it may be worth investigating.

[Ixoye 1,841]

I use MFG Crosswinds and have no problem controlling aircraft straight along the runway during ground rolls, and I use normal linear settings, but before I bought my MFG I also experienced that it was much harder and more sensitive.

[Bobsk8 12,879]

I have the Logitech pedals which I am not crazy about, before that I had the CH Pro pedals, and I think they worked a bit better. I manage to keep the aircraft I fly pretty much on the centerline on takeoff and landing. On takeoff, I make sure to stop any deviation of the nose, quickly, and also to apply power gradually. Fire walling the throttle, seems to make takeoff heading control much more difficult. I flew the A2A Texan quite a bit, and that aircraft demanded precise rudder control, or off the runway you went. 

[fl95 20]

I am a real Piston Engine Pilot and I can confirm, that it is sometime difficult to steer a starting Aircraft.

Achim

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

Sim ground handling is absolutely in need of improvement.  Left turning tendencies and crosswind weathervaning are modeled; the problem is that they aren't exactly modeled correctly.  Ground friction values seem odd to me; planes seem to slide around on dry pavement like it's icy.  And crosswind weathervaning is crazily overdone; 5kts of crosswind component in the sim makes the plane behave like a 15 or 20kt crosswind in reality. 

To be fair though, I've never seen a desktop sim do any better at this (well, at friction. The crosswind, yes.)  FSX and XP have the same issue. I guess it's either a real challenge, or deemed not worth the effort, to improve in the desktop sim world. 

[EGLD 440]

totally agree with the OP - ground handling on takeoff is appalling, like riding a bucking bronco

I'm looking on in interest to see how PMDG and Fenix get their mega study sim aircraft to handle well on the takeoff and landing rolls, or if all of their good work will be completely undermined by the gound handling

[Paul J 349]

This is the config that helped me most, Rocky:
   https://1drv.ms/u/s!AueVg7eVAeXMlUBqJmTobpIfhnyZ?e=ardy4Y

Edit: (with Assistance set to Hard  -> Off - all the way down)

It allows a good amount of boot at taxy while allowing one to find a "hold point" to counter a cross-wind, and then to lessen that pressure as the speed builds. One of the issues I found is that ( I think) - some aircraft appear to have left and right brake pressure applied via the rudder pedals whilst taxying - yet others don't have this. It makes for a confusing appreciation of getting anything setup so that they all behave approximately the way one might expect. The other "pain" is that many airfields don't have a readily-visible windsock. I'm using r/w weather and feel that it works pretty well - also "Weather Preset Pro" on occasion, too.
ATB.

pj

Edited January 20, 2022 by Paul J

[ark 1,296]

4 minutes ago, Paul J said:

This is the config that helped me most, Rocky:
   https://1drv.ms/u/s!AueVg7eVAeXMlUBqJmTobpIfhnyZ?e=ardy4Y

Paul, does the -4% Neutral setting in effect apply a little right rudder as the default (no pilot input) value?

Thx,

Al

Edited January 20, 2022 by ark

[Paul J 349]

Naah... that's just getting the neutral centered on the crosshair, Al.  I guess it accounts for my heavy left boot, being a limey. That spot will move slightly the instant you plant your foot on the pedals. In my case - they are home-made, without any centering spring, in the manner of the DH Chipmunk. The "secret", if I can call it that, has been through many years of (also) flying R/C aircraft: almost all of the radios used since about 1975 have incorporated the ability to set an exponential curve to the control - the central, horizontal-ish flat part giving small or little control surface movement - which is nice, and needed when on approach for landing, for eg, where you don't want a sensitive elevator, but at the same time, strongly increasing when easing nose up as the speed drops right before the wheels touch. Setting up a stall, or a spin, exponential allows one to smoothly work the elevator up to full - again as the speed falls away. All of this applies to the rudder.  In the same light - I also do believe - and am astounded - that Asobo have so many issues when it comes to implementing the hundreds of basic features of aviation that we have all taken for granted in the past simulators., and this take-off unpredictability issue is just one of them.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Paul J

[sd_flyer 6,095]

45 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Sim ground handling is absolutely in need of improvement.  Left turning tendencies and crosswind weathervaning are modeled; the problem is that they aren't exactly modeled correctly.  Ground friction values seem odd to me; planes seem to slide around on dry pavement like it's icy.  And crosswind weathervaning is crazily overdone; 5kts of crosswind component in the sim makes the plane behave like a 15 or 20kt crosswind in reality. 

To be fair though, I've never seen a desktop sim do any better at this (well, at friction. The crosswind, yes.)  FSX and XP have the same issue. I guess it's either a real challenge, or deemed not worth the effort, to improve in the desktop sim world. 

The problem is exactly like you sad with ground friction. in MSFS airplanes weathervane while three points firmly on the ground which is wrong. That add to directional control.

While we acknowledging ground friction problem I still believe $100 rudder pedal for PC  won't add same feed back as in real airplane (even if physics is correct). Gotta adjust your senses!

[Paul J 349]

Yep: exactly. That subtle "Seat of the Pants" is missing.    StearmanD is right, too, though it's been improved greatly compared to when it was released. I'm ok with it now, actually (either the Arrow or RY's Bonanza) after trying to backtrack too fast, dragging a tip in a groundloop a coupla days ago!  I do remember the Waco being released, though - as the tail came up - the nose swung 40 degrees left and full right rudder did nothing at all to correct it.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Paul J

[MarkDH 234]

Just in case, check that your sim hasn't reset rudder assist to ON. You can tell if you look at the rudder pedals in the VC and they recentre when you hold some rudder on. This was happening to me for a while.

[DD_Arthur 1,105]

4 hours ago, Rockliffe said:

Is this just me, or is there some intrinsic issue with the inner workings of MSFS that make take offs just overly sensitive in the yaw axis

It seems to me once you hit 40kts going down that runway, all planes - to a greater or lesser extent - want to veer to the left...