5 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

if they are really using the live stream, or if they just create normal "offline" AI aircraft based on the basic flight information (callsign, type, departure, arrival - pulled maybe once ever other minute?), with a generated flight plan.

I just took off at KDEN w/ only MSFS Realtime Online and interestingly enough ATC called a SWA on its approach and landing and 'knew' when it had landed from the chatter happening.  

15 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I use ForeFlight for real-time traffic as it accurate

FlightAware seems real-time as well as a few moments ago I just witnessed SWA550 in MSFS RT Online traffic land at KDEN and there could not have been much delay with LiveATC which called the landing and request to get off the runway after it landed.

Interesting thread!

By injecting real-world traffic into the sim (great idea) doesn't that then require the built-in ATC to control that traffic - maintain separation, issue clearances etc?  I was shadowing a flight out of Orlando last night and I was getting traffic alerts all over the place. I think one TA was the real-world aircraft sitting on top of me!

From a simulation perspective, ATC is very complicated (especially when you are injecting real traffic) but not impossible.  I absolutely embrace the realism and I will be interested to see what MS / Asobo do with ATC in future. 

Cheers,

Dave.

 

Edited January 23, 20224 yr by gb09f

6 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Maybe a flight plan that uses a broadly similar route?

Read my post on the last page about the NavCanada flight I observed in-sim. It isn't a broadly similar route, it's exact, including altitude.

From my observations, the only times it's not using Flight Aware's data, is during taxi, departure and approach. Those parts are handled by the default AI system.

Edited January 23, 20224 yr by Tuskin38

40 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

It isn't a broadly similar route, it's exact, including altitude.

Good for Asobo then.

I spent countless hours on LLTX, working around the issues that live traffic data brings. That included writing my own taxi in - park and taxi out - pushback logic, plus a hundred other things to counter inaccuracies and missing data (using the paid RealTraffic datasource, FlightAware and data from the OpenSkyNetwork project) in three different modes of operation (real time live, simulator AI and a hybrid from the two, where aircraft en route were live-live and switched to AI mode on approach/departure)

That experience has left me very sceptical about the validity of the whole approach, especially on a large scale. I would always opt for native simulator AI, augmented with real world data. But that is just me, times change. 

Edited January 23, 20224 yr by Lorby_SI

27 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Good for Asobo then.

I spent countless hours on LLTX, working around the issues that live traffic data brings. That included writing my own taxi in - park and taxi out - pushback logic, plus a hundred other things to counter inaccuracies and missing data (using the paid RealTraffic datasource, FlightAware and data from the OpenSkyNetwork project) in three different modes of operation (real time live, simulator AI and a hybrid from the two, where aircraft en route were live-live and switched to AI mode on approach/departure)

That experience has left me very sceptical about the validity of the whole approach, especially on a large scale. I would always opt for native simulator AI, augmented with real world data. But that is just me, times change. 

online AI in MSFS has so many issues... I bet even ASOBO has not figured it out yet 😞

39 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Good for Asobo then.

I spent countless hours on LLTX, working around the issues that live traffic data brings. That included writing my own taxi in - park and taxi out - pushback logic, plus a hundred other things to counter inaccuracies and missing data (using the paid RealTraffic datasource, FlightAware and data from the OpenSkyNetwork project) in three different modes of operation (real time live, simulator AI and a hybrid from the two, where aircraft en route were live-live and switched to AI mode on approach/departure)

That experience has left me very sceptical about the validity of the whole approach, especially on a large scale. I would always opt for native simulator AI, augmented with real world data. But that is just me, times change. 

coudl we still use LLTX for MSFS?  The lasttime i used it planes were flying and taxiing but they altitude never changed.

Your work was incredible every time i used it for P3D!

thanks! 

"That experience has left me very skeptical about the validity of the whole approach, especially on a large scale. I would always opt for native simulator AI, augmented with real world data. But that is just me, times change. "

This^^

it is absolutely the only way to go, full stop.  All other aspects will lead to highly unsatisfactory results.

9 minutes ago, abranpuko said:

coudl we still use LLTX for MSFS?  The lasttime i used it planes were flying and taxiing but they altitude never changed.

Not only the altitude, it is generally impossible to change their route once the AI aircraft have been created. They are just flying straight ahead. And yes, that is still the same. I have reported this to Asobo back when MSFS was in the Alpha btw.

I made a few experiments with SimAI mode, but the behavior of the aircraft was disappointing, way worse than even in FSX (although that may have been an issue with the models themselves). So back on the shelf again.

Edited January 23, 20224 yr by Lorby_SI

37 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Not only the altitude, it is generally impossible to change their route once the AI aircraft have been created. They are just flying straight ahead. And yes, that is still the same. I have reported this to Asobo back when MSFS was in the Alpha btw.

I made a few experiments with SimAI mode, but the behavior of the aircraft was disappointing, way worse than even in FSX (although that may have been an issue with the models themselves). So back on the shelf again.

AI behavior is worse then FSX... they have a very very basic FDE (hardcoded) for them 😞 Putting any effort at the moment into AI related stuff is causing you to loose qzite a lot of nerves 😉

45 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Not only the altitude, it is generally impossible to change their route once the AI aircraft have been created. They are just flying straight ahead. And yes, that is still the same. I have reported this to Asobo back when MSFS was in the Alpha btw.

I made a few experiments with SimAI mode, but the behavior of the aircraft was disappointing, way worse than even in FSX (although that may have been an issue with the models themselves). So back on the shelf again.

 

5 minutes ago, Kaiii3 said:

AI behavior is worse then FSX... they have a very very basic FDE (hardcoded) for them 😞 Putting any effort at the moment into AI related stuff is causing you to loose qzite a lot of nerves 😉

I don't know the level of indignation that may exist that what was announced: real air traffic, has not been even well outlined in the use of MSFS. I guess the outrage itself is useless, unless it starts a turbine of many people who want things to work, especially coming from a PAID product.
All I have to say to you is thank you, because for free, you are doing a job that they should have done: AIG, LORBY, PSX, REALTRAFFIC...
The benefits of MSFS do not justify that a year and a half later we have airports full of silly generic planes and poor virtual reality of air traffic.
Hopefully all consumers realize the deception and this awakens new attitudes.
In other words: no silence.

Compared to P3D that I used for a decade I've gotten vastly more for what I PAID for MSFS than I ever did for P3D, already.1.5y out from release.  Now if they up and quit, I'd be miffed.  But already MSFS has far exceeded what P3D ever could do.

1 hour ago, Kaiii3 said:

I bet even ASOBO has not figured it out yet 😞

They will absolutely, but at the moment haven't dedicated the resources fully on it quite yet is my sense.  Some features in MSFS are really in 'placeholder' status.  I think the next 3-6 months will be very telling for where they are headed longer term.

27 minutes ago, abranpuko said:

I guess the outrage itself is useless, unless it starts a turbine of many people who want things to work, especially coming from a PAID product.

To me the outrage is vastly misplaced.  If MS/Asobo announced they were all done w/ development yes I'd be miffed and very disappointed but that does not appear to be the case, at all.  Right now, despite the 'placeholder' status of several underdeveloped features, MSFS is so far past any other flight sim ever created in a single package here at 1.5y post release, I feel I've already gotten far more than the lousy $119.99 I paid for it 1.5y ago.  That fee got me 2/3 of my first of four EULA-compliant licenses of P3D.

17 hours ago, Silicus said:

Live traffic from MSFS will never be the same as from the AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC combo, as they can not license all the liveries to be included in the sim.

This sounds like an installation nightmare...  Not to mention when they all need periodic updates!

 

I really wish there was one single add-on Traffic program to "Rule them All"!

In P3d or FSX was more easy. 

We were free to input the ailrine we wanted. 

Just easy.

Life is easy.