>>No matter how you view it this product is a piece of>entertainment software, and as such it is certainly a game,>albeit a Flight Simulation game.>>You simply cannot strip this product of either the label game,>or simulator, as both are one in the same. >>So enjoy your simulation game, that whats its here for.Nope, nope, and not really! :-hah With a few addons, and possibly without addons, this piece of software is authentic enough in relation to real life flight; to use it as legitimate practice for flying to unfamiliar airports, as well as the complete navigation sequence whether VFR or IFR.If you need to be a pilot to understand this, then so be it... :)L.Adamson

Im afraid FSX and PMDG is going to be a slide show.Or turn all the graphics options off and you have, FS2004!

A difficult call. Ultimately it's entertainment software and a bunch of guys (and gals) pretending to be pilots and fantasising that when the stewardess asks, "Can anyone fly the plane", we could step forward and offer to land that 747 Big Boy.Part of me wants to say it's a simulation but I fly, even when on duty for a VA, for fun and while I like things to be as accurate as possible it's still a "game", just the same as when I use GTA San Andreas or Test Drive Unlimited to amuse myself.

You can fool your self all you want! It is what it is and at the end of the day its only a simulation game! Is it certified as real simulator? No. So what does that mean? Its only a game!

Certified by whom? A number of small flight schools use MSFS in their pilot training programs. So in their eyes they see it as a certified simulation tool. Regards,Mark

my 2 cents:I agree with most people that game and simulator aren't exclusive and FSX is probably both.However, I would raise the point the in a very strict sense MSFS isn't really a game. By definition, games have very strict rules and end results and there is a clear winner. You can't really 'win' FSX nor is there a well-defined end. FSX is the first version that clearly steps into the game direction - via the missions which do have well defined ends and you can win or lose. FSX is probably best defined as a simulation toy (although some people may use it as a training tool) with game like elements :(Christian

>Certified by whom? A number of small flight schools use MSFS>in their pilot training programs. So in their eyes they see it>as a certified simulation tool. >>Regards,>Mark>I could swear I read somewhere that BOEING uses PMDG's stuff to introduce new 737-747 owners to AC's basics. Don't know if it's actually true?

I have used it to practice, and reinforce every rating I have achieved as a real pilot-presently commercial instrument multi engine pilot.It has saved me a lot of money-and I am talking a lot! Let's see-should I practice single engine procedures on fsx (pitch , power, drag, identify, verify, feather) on the sim countless times till it becomes second nature-or pay $200/hr to do it on the real bird (causing strife to the real engines) for only a couple of times?If I load a jet which I know nothing about and fly buzzing buildings of a major city, and examine aircraft bathroom facilities-it is a game.If I fly my personal aircraft (or others I have flown) with proper procedures and practice real world procedures-it is a sim-and a very serious one at that.It is nice it can be both a game or a serious sim depending on the user and the needs.Sometimes I enjoy the game aspects-but most of the time I use the simulator aspects.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

Being certified as a simulator has more to do with Faa approved controls than the sim itself.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

>By definition, games have very strict rules and end >results and there is a clear winner. You can't really>'win' FSX nor is there a well-defined end.You're right in that you can't "win" FSX nor is there a well-defined end, but those two items do not exclusively describe a simulator. I once again bring EVE Online to your attention: by your definition of a simulator, EVE would fit the bill. There is no well-defined end (in fact there is absolutely NO other end to the game than shutting the servers down) and you simply can not win it.On the flipside, FSX does have very strict rules and end results, such as "You can not and shall not fly underground (rule). If you try, with realism up high, you will most certainly crash (end result)". This would suggest that by your definition FSX is a game.As I said in my previous post, FSX absolutely CAN be a simulator of SOMETHING for someone who wants to see it that way and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem comes from that someone trying to shoehorn FSX into the simulator category for someone else, who either has a different set of parameters which define a simulator or who simply has no reason to define FSX exclusively as a simulator in the first place.

Its purely in the eye of the beholder. If you want to use the FSX to fly in Africa to save the elephent flying the mission and winning a certificate. Sure its a game.On the other hand, if you start an add-on aircraft cold and spend 20 minutes preparing and starting the engines by the book and then making all the radio call by the book and flying it like you do in real life. Then it is one of the most realistic simulators around.So the more appropriate question is. How do you use the FSX? As a game or as a Simulator. This is an attribute of the individual. Are ayou a gamer o a simmer? Thats more like it.My Answer to that Q. I am 50% Simmer and 50% Gamer. :)Manny

Actually, there are a number of simulators that use FS for simulation where hours in the sim count towards IFR certification plus a number of GA and Heavy aircraft simulators used for instruction. Info is pretty easy to find with google.So, you are both right, it is a simulation and it is a game. No 'fooling' required.

Is FSX a simulation or a game is a contemporary zen koan. What is the sound of one hand clapping? There is no answer. Unless you are a fan of the Simpsons, in which case, you are right now doing that thing that Bart did with his hand. Is that the answer? We will never decide, as there are no absolutes. Still, it's fun to talk about. In my social circle, I am the only one I know who uses MSFS. All those folks call it a game -- actually "that game" or "playing with airplanes". In my reviews, I am careful to remember to call it a sim, and instead of gamers, I refer to sim pilots. For research, I got to speak to the kind folks at Kenmore Aviation, the only real-world airline featured in FSX; they use MSFS as a visualization tool to help new pilots recognize VFR approaches into Seattle. Personally for me, MSFS is a hobby, and it's remained fun and engaging long past the lifetime of any other "application" on my computer system, with maybe the exception of Notepad and Photoshop.Jeff ShylukAvsim Product Reviewer

Whether a game or a simulation of reality is really in the eye of the beholder. Any sausage can muck about in an aeroplane for a bit of gaming fun. But if you want to master complex systems and combine that with true world navigation techniques, I guess you can class it as a simulation of real world aviation.