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birdguy

NASA to start UFO investigations...

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

It is more likely that developed civilizations around the universe would send probes for space exploration then manned missions, this is true with us too, the large majority of our space exploration has been unmanned

 

I agree. The recent, so called, tic tac incidents are hypothesised by some to be unmanned probes. The question is, if your probe finds a complex civilisation on another world, and you posses FTL technology and the means to get there rapidly, would you send members of your species to investigate too?

There is the concept of the Von Neuman probe too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

 

Edited by martin-w

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On this long night flight between Europe and China many moons ago, the plane was almost completely empty. I don't know why, I felt so sad and lonely. It was completely dark, there was absolutely nothing to see. I couldn't sleep. Finally played with the FM radio app on my phone and after a lot of static while switching around frequencies, finally picked up a faint signal from a Russian radio talk show. For some reason it felt so good to hear there was someone else out there. I can't help feeling slightly similar with hoping to pick up some sort of a signal from aliens. But the recent furor over radio signals picked up by the Chinese is probably nothing. Being an alien hunter sure requires a lot more patience than just getting a little bored on a 10 hour red eye flight. 

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2 hours ago, Antipodeslonghaul said:

But the recent furor over radio signals picked up by the Chinese is probably nothing. Being an alien hunter sure requires a lot more patience than just getting a little bored on a 10 hour red eye flight. 

 

Yeah, almost certainly nothing alien. We've had a few interesting moments, like the famous "wow signal", but usually these things turn out to be natural galactic phenomena or interference from something human.

One day though, who knows...

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

I agree. The recent, so called, tic tac incidents are hypothesised by some to be unmanned probes. The question is, if your probe finds a complex civilisation on another world, and you posses FTL technology and the means to get there rapidly, would you send members of your species to investigate too?

 

Yes this depends if it is worth it to physically come here or not, I think their are numerous 'Class-M' type planets out there and you couldn't get to them all, and some more valuable then others therefore if it is worth it to go to one over another you would. This one may or may not be worth it due to our size or the habitants (being us) or our useless technology has no value etc, we just may not be worth it to them  

(Sorry I use the term Class-M that is just the Trekkie in me)  😎

Edited by Matthew Kane

Matthew Kane

 

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Posted (edited)

Our planet is almost out on the edge of that galaxy.  I would think there are more (class M) planets toward the center of the galaxy.  Most of the exploration would take place where the distances travelled are not so great.  We are a small, isolated island so to speak.  Why would they be interested in spending the time and effort to some here?

On the other hand, there might be something unique about our planet and it's inhabitants to make the trip worthwhile.  I don't suppose we'll ever know.

Without getting into a religious discussion what did the Lord mean when he said, "In my father's house are many mansions."?  If His father's house is the universe wouldn't that mean many inhabited planets?

Noel

 

Edited by birdguy

The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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8 hours ago, birdguy said:

Without getting into a religious discussion what did the Lord mean when he said, "In my father's house are many mansions."?  If His father's house is the universe wouldn't that mean many inhabited planets?

Noel

 

I had a deeply religious friend once where any mention of even the remotest possibility of the existence of extraterrestrial life was extremely touchy. I didn't understand at the time. I just thought, huh, God could have created us, plus all the other amazing things on Earth, and on top of that he could have created all sorts of other inhabited planets across the universe as well. I can still believe in God and believe in aliens at the same time. But I think what my friend meant was he had a hard time believing God could have created anything more intelligent than us, that we had to be numero uno. I can dig that, but also have to say for me personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised nor the least bit offended if there was something more intelligent than us out there. It wouldn't diminish any reverence I might have for a supreme being in the least. But then one might also start wondering whether God created some sort of artificial intelligence that exceeded even his own intelligence, and then we might really have a problem, or be getting into too deep of a religious discussion, but I think the passage you referred to could mean just that, many inhabited planets.

17 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Yeah, almost certainly nothing alien. We've had a few interesting moments, like the famous "wow signal", but usually these things turn out to be natural galactic phenomena or interference from something human.

One day though, who knows...

Ha! Yes, a bit funny to imagine a bunch of researchers getting all excited over a strange signal when it was just some guy microwaving his burrito. But really, one day, who knows. Whether it's the depths of our oceans, or deep space, we still have so much we can be curious about.

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I used to consider 'aliens' and 'spirits/ghosts' as two different topics but lately I've been wondering if maybe what we perciece as 'aliens' could actually be due to spiritual forces?

There was a place not far from where I grew up that was reportedly haunted.  On the property was an outhouse.  A friend of mine took a screw eye door latch from that outhouse and put it in his pocket.  The next morning he pulled out what should have been two interconnected pieces but instead it was now two separate  pieces.  Both were still old, painted white and a little rusty and neither showed any signs of tampering.  What was once two interconnected pieces (you know what a screw eye door latch is right?  I could try and find a picture if I had to) - two interconnected pieces were now two separate pieces.

I would say that spirits/spiritual forces have the ability to alter our physical reality and I doubt it would be difficult for them to make us see what we think are 'aliens'.

Sorry if this complicates the discussion but it really should be included because we simply have no idea what form these beings would be in even if it has nothing to do with ghosts or spirits at all.  Why do we always want to base the "unknown to us" on "the known to us"?


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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16 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Yes this depends if it is worth it to physically come here or not, I think their are numerous 'Class-M' type planets out there and you couldn't get to them all, and some more valuable then others therefore if it is worth it to go to one over another you would. This one may or may not be worth it due to our size or the habitants (being us) or our useless technology has no value etc, we just may not be worth it to them  

(Sorry I use the term Class-M that is just the Trekkie in me)  😎

 

Actually there is a Class-M designation in astronomy, as well as the Trek version. Means something slightly different though. Class  M in astronomy is a mesoplanet. It was originally coined by Asimov but I think its used pretty much officially now, but don't quote me. 

Our technology would be be of no interest in terms of acquisition to a super advanced race, except in terms of researching the development of other species. Resources would be of no value given that the asteroid belts are a far greater source of mineral resources.

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7 hours ago, Antipodeslonghaul said:

Ha! Yes, a bit funny to imagine a bunch of researchers getting all excited over a strange signal when it was just some guy microwaving his burrito.

 

Its actually happened for real. 😁

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Our technology would be be of no interest in terms of acquisition to a super advanced race,

Like what do the pigmies in Africa have that would be of interest to us?  Or the Aboriginals of Australia?  Or the tribes along the Amazon?

Some people study them for interest if nothing else.  For the most part they are ignored by the modern world of high speed trans and airplanes and rocket ships.

However, if they had natural resources we wanted such as minerals or oil or timber then they would become a labor pool like the Africans who mine diamonds today.

Noel  

Edited by birdguy

The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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28 minutes ago, sightseer said:

Sorry if this complicates the discussion but it really should be included because we simply have no idea what form these beings would be in even if it has nothing to do with ghosts or spirits at all.  Why do we always want to base the "unknown to us" on "the known to us"?

 

We would be fools to dismiss all such suggestions. Everything should be considered on its own merits and evidence for its veracity sought.  Having said that, I've no idea why a "spirit being" would pretend to be a solid craft and carry out manoeuvres around aircraft carriers and F18's. 🙂

I've also seen no evidence that ghosts/spirits exist. And the only way I can imagine that something like that might be feasible is if some kind of imprint was left behind, some kind of electromagnetic image from the past. No evidence though. 

 

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20 minutes ago, martin-w said:

No evidence though. 

No evidence doesn't mean not possible.  If they do exist aliens and spirits might be one and the same.  Or they may be different.  Or they may be apparitions of something completely beyond our knowledge and comprehension.  They might only visit us on their equivalent of our Halloween.  

Our imaginations run wild when we contemplate the unknown.  Werewolves - vampires - spirits - ghosts - aliens from outer space.  Many people believe in all or some of them.  Zombies are the current fad in movies and television.

Martin, I don't think you and I will ever know.  But it's fun talking about it.

Noel


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, birdguy said:

Werewolves - vampires - spirits - ghosts - aliens from outer space.  Many people believe in all or some of them.

If there are any believers in vampires here, could they please tell me how a 180lb man can change into a 2oz bat and back to a 180lb man. Where does all that mass go in the meantime?

Also, why are zombies always partly decomposed? Why aren't there any who were buried just the day before and still look pretty good?

Edited by dmwalker

Dugald Walker

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Posted (edited)

To get back a little closer to the original topic, how practical could a von Neumann self-replicating probe ever be? How many different manufacturing processes would it need in order to replicate and assemble the materials necessary for the physical structure, the electronics, the propellant, etc. for an equal-sized replica probe?

Edited by dmwalker

Dugald Walker

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7 hours ago, martin-w said:

Having said that, I've no idea why a "spirit being" would pretend to be a solid craft and carry out manoeuvres around aircraft carriers and F18's. 🙂

Why would (and how) a ghost go to the trouble of taking apart two interconnected inconsequential pieces of old metal?  Its very strange to me but I saw it.  I've heard people who say they've experienced ghosts talk about how the ghost would move certain items in the house.  I have no experience with that and dont want to.  I believe it though.

  I dont know why some spirit might impersonate alien spacecraft.  Perhaps its to confuse, confound and or distract...because they can?  Maybe its the best way they can find to not be ignored anymore.


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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