1 hour ago, birdguy said:

But there are a very few out there that did reach the stars, and will reach the stars, and they are the Johnny Appleseeds that roam the universe and plant their DNA into primitive apelike creatures they find on habitable planets that will develope into intelligent humanoids that will, and have, developed technologies that will not save them.  And most will suffer the same greed and selfishnes and political inertia that we do.  But one out of a trillion will succeed in planting humanoid life through the expanding universe ad infinitum.

Why would they go to all that bother to develop apelike creatures into intelligent humanoids, which would still take millions of years and would have unpredictable results? More likely, they would be looking for a habitable planet which they could colonise or they would be looking for an intelligent species with which they could have a mutually beneficial interaction.

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

Look up at the sky at night with the naked eye.  What you see is less than a trillionth of what's out there.  It's ludicrous to think we are the only intelligent beings in a universe that is limitless and filled with all kinds of stuff... and a little bit of stuff like us.

 

As I said earlier I prefer to think in terms of the galaxy rather than the universe. Simply because geometrically the universe seems to be flat thus infinite, so if infinite, atoms can only arrange themselves in a finite number of ways, so must repeat. Thus, there would indeed be other lifeforms, in fact another planet identical to this and replete with beings identical to us.

 

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

I believe that intelligent humanoid life that looks pretty much like we do is out there in various stages of development.  Some still primitive, some at about our level of development, and some quite a bit more advanced than we are.  And they will all develop technology use up their resources and destroy their environments just as we are doing and will never exist long enough to reach the stars.

 

If you think there's humanoid or similar life out there then you would believe in "convergent Evolution" which is feasible. Wouldn't mean its all like that though. If there is life out there it will be in all shapes and sizes and possibly not even based on carbon. Some of it might be humanlike if convergent evolution is a thing. And of course if we are talking about the entire universe, and if is indeed flat thus infinite, then most certainly there would be life like us out there, in fact identical to us, you and me, carbon copies of us.

What we are doing of course is speculation, so "I believe" might not be a good idea as we don't have  evidence.

Edited July 29, 20223 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

But there are a very few out there that did reach the stars, and will reach the stars, and they are the Johnny Appleseeds that roam the universe and plant their DNA into primitive apelike creatures they find on habitable planets that will develope into intelligent humanoids that will, and have, developed technologies that will not save them.  And most will suffer the same greed and selfishnes and political inertia that we do.  But one out of a trillion will succeed in planting humanoid life through the expanding universe ad infinitum.

 

A great science fiction story Noel. Without evidence (and there is none) that's all it is at this point in time. Find me evidence and I'll arrange for a Nobel Prize for you. 😁 Or better still, a platinum cat point.

The irony here is that no explorer goes on a journey not believing they'll find something... they all believe they'll find something - thats why they explore.  They can't see it - they've never been there - but yet they look.

evidence is what you find after you look.

and in my opinion, the universe is infinitely large and infinitely small.  Time is the only true dimension.

Edited July 29, 20223 yr by sightseer

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

And there is no evidence and the probability is extremely low. Physics shows us that a magical deity isn't required.

What exactly do you know about physics?  Are you formally educated and trained in physics?  I've actually completed several university courses in physics and advanced math.  Have you?

There is absolutely no evidence at all for what you claim, either.

Dave

1 hour ago, dmwalker said:

Why would they go to all that bother to develop apelike creatures into intelligent humanoids, which would still take millions of years and would have unpredictable results?

Perhaps they have millions of years.  We have researchers who spend a whole career researching stuff.  They have a control petri dish and then a bunch other petri dishes with slightly different things.

It's just as likely as any other supposition I've heard.

Noel 

9 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I've actually completed several university courses in physics and advanced math.  Have you?

In a manner of speaking I have Dave.  I am a Roswellian.  I come from another planet in our galaxy.  I was one a dozen families who survived the crash in 1948 and we came here to scope you guys out.  We look like you and talk like you and are no different from you than a German is from a Swede.  I was only 15 years old when I got here and even though I was already fully educated I went to school and lived an Earthling life reporting on my experiences every few months or so.  I know how to do that by a process you wouldn't understand even though you have several university courses in physics.  But that's the only power I have that you earthlings haven't discovered yet.

I love this thread because everybody has ideas that just could be possible.  I wouldn't count out anything any of you guys surmise.

I'm really not supposed to let anyone know I am one of what you call aliens, but it really doesn't matter because you don't believe me anyway.

Noel

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

What exactly do you know about physics?  Are you formally educated and trained in physics?  I've actually completed several university courses in physics and advanced math.  Have you?

There is absolutely no evidence at all for what you claim, either.

Dave

I've taken plenty of "physics" in my day! 🤔

 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

I'm really not supposed to let anyone know I am one of what you call aliens

Your secret is safe with us.

10 hours ago, dave2013 said:

What exactly do you know about physics?  Are you formally educated and trained in physics?  I've actually completed several university courses in physics and advanced math.  Have you?

There is absolutely no evidence at all for what you claim, either.

Dave

 

"Several university courses"

😁 Really? Like what? Degree? Masters Degree? PhD? Very strange you've never contributed to a single discussion when we've debated inflation, m-theory, gravity, quantum field theory, dark matter, dark energy and a number of other subjects. Also strange you haven't grasped basic aspects of a certain science we arent allowed to discuss.

As for my qualification in physics, you've asked that before and I've told you... been interested in science and technology from a very young age and wrote science fiction for a couple of decades, untill I got divorced, and have never written since. But then, this isn't a "mine is bigger than yours" contest is it? 🙄 Seems you like to switch to "what qualifications do you have" when you have no counterargument. 

If you've studied physics you should be aware of the fact that the hot big bang, or any cosmological singularity before it, does not require a creator. 

Once again you have pushed a thread in a direction we arent supposed to go. 

Again... if you want to debate religion or the existance of a deity, PM me and I'll gladly accommodate you... but not here or you'll get the topic locked... again!

In regard to the hot big bang, inflation, eternal inflation,  the inflaton field  that may or may not have been eternal, or Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmology or any other theory, feel free to debate it here.

Edited July 30, 20223 yr by martin-w

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

Really? Like what? Degree? Masters Degree? PhD?

Bachelor degree in Engineering Management, Associate degree in Computer Information Systems, and Associate degree in Electronics Engineering.

You are about the most pretentious person I've come across in a long time, and you have no idea what you're talking about most of the time, but you desperately want people to believe that you do.

Dave

And with that....I think we are done here, again! 

You two hash it out off of the forums!