The standard procedure for Garmin GNS/GTN and Avidyne IFD units is to press button on GPS itself. I'm mean it's nice to have dedicated button wired, but why? It's not uncommon for RL to have some minor equipment inop. It also won't be higher priority on squawk list for operator to fix. Just like waiting for SU11 LOL

55 minutes ago, cianpars said:

I've got used to it now, but it's not the way it should be.

If the GNS 530 is in VLOC, and a VOR signal is tuned in, the CDI on the VOR1 head is responding to that VOR signal.  And at the same time, if the mini-panel is indicating GPS and the AP is on, the AP NAV mode, and thus the plane's course, is being driven by the GPS signal which could have no relation to what the VOR1 CDI is indicating?

Al

Edited October 3, 20223 yr by ark

Quoting from another forum regarding a GNS530 in the panel:

The NAV/GPS switch is not part of this system.  The CDI button on the GNS controls whether your nav instruments are getting their needle values from the nav radio or the GPS.  The reason for the NAV/GPS switch in older aircraft was because the GPS unit didn't have built in NAV radios and thus there had to be a separate electrical switch to swap the needle inputs on the NAV display gauge (CDI).  Both the 430 and the 530 have NAV and COM radios and thus don't use an external switch.

Edited October 3, 20223 yr by Bert Pieke

12 minutes ago, ark said:

And at the same time, if the mini-panel is indicating GPS and the AP is on, the AP NAV mode, and thus the plane's course, is being driven by the GPS signal which could have no relation to what the VOR1 CDI is indicating?

Yeah, I'm not saying it isn't a strange panel setup, I don't disagree. Did a decent amount of research on this one and there are definitely planes out there with it in this config after trading the KLNs out for GNSs, as this particular mini-panel is actually just not compatible at all with GNS units in the way it signals (it's purely analog). Since the GNS units are always outputting both sets of deviation signals it is indeed possible to set it up like you're describing, but the answer apparently is "just don't do that".

Some time down the line I'm sure we'll either replace the mini-panel in the art (they do make a GNS compatible version which has a different layout) or ditch it entirely (it isn't strictly needed for the GNSs at all).

2 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Some time down the line I'm sure we'll either replace the mini-panel in the art (they do make a GNS compatible version which has a different layout) or ditch it entirely

In the interim, why not do what a2a did... disable the NAV/GPS switch, and leave the readout active?

In your scenario, is the procedure to leave the NAV/GPS switch in GPS mode, and use the GNS CDI button only, or do you expect the pilot to push two buttons each time?  I am still confused..

5 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

In your scenario, is the procedure to leave the NAV/GPS switch in GPS mode, and use the GNS CDI button only, or do you expect the pilot to push two buttons each time?  I am still confused..

I'm not sure it's that confusing, but the mini-panel button controls the autopilot source, and the GNS buttons control the CDI needle display source. Whether or not you need to press two buttons depends on how you have your GNS units set up. Maybe you have the top GNS on VLOC and the bottom GNS on GPS, and you just want to switch the AP from VLOC to GPS but leave the CDI needles alone, in which case, you would leave the GNS units alone and just switch the mini-panel button.

19 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

as this particular mini-panel is actually just not compatible at all with GNS units in the way it signals (it's purely analog)

Matt, I understand, but we are talking about a simulator here, and there are plenty of other "simulator liberties" taken, so it would not be unreasonable to just assume someone designed an analog to digital board to interface the mini-panel to the GNS unit. Simple solution IMO until the mini-panel art work is changed, etc.

Al

Edited October 3, 20223 yr by ark

1 minute ago, MattNischan said:

I'm not sure it's that confusing, but the mini-panel button controls the autopilot source, and the GNS buttons control the CDI needle display source. Whether or not you need to press two buttons depends on how you have your GNS units set up. Maybe you have the top GNS on VLOC and the bottom GNS on GPS, and you just want to switch the AP from VLOC to GPS but leave the CDI needles alone, in which case, you would leave the GNS units alone and just switch the mini-panel button.

Now we are really going down the rabbit hole... How does this nifty switch know which GPS is the one you want to be the active navigation device..

7 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

How does this nifty switch know which GPS is the one you want to be the active navigation device..

MSFS only models one GPS, so ultimately it doesn't really factor in, in this case. They're both the same, which is part of what led us to this decision for now.

In a world where making it INOP would bring bug reports, and splitting the CDIs but linking it to one would bring bug reports, and splitting the entire system up would bring bug reports, we figured at the very least splitting it all up seemed the least likely to be seen as a bug and could be backed up by real world installs, and the thing that seemed to fly past everyone is now you can actually split the CDIs, which is new as of SU10 (previously if you had one in GPS, they both had to be in GPS).

Edited October 3, 20223 yr by MattNischan

2 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

we figured at the very least this seemed the least likely to be seen as a bug

But now we are having this long and circular discussion...

Can we agree that this NAV/GPS switch is designed to switch both autopilot and CDI readout together, based on a NAV1 radio and a GPS as inputs?

So, you rip out the NAV1 radio and the GPS, and install a GNS into panel.

The GNS has one set of outputs which can be NAV1 or GPS depending on its integral CDI switch.

How can this NAV/GPS switch produce a GPS output when the GNS is set to VLOC?  This just does not make sense to me..

8 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

The GNS has one set of outputs which can be NAV1 or GPS depending on its integral CDI switch.

Not exactly. It has a set of main outs which are either GPS or VLOC, and an additional set of VLOC outs that are word not allowed of the CDI button setting.

11 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

How can this NAV/GPS switch produce a GPS output when the GNS is set to VLOC?  This just does not make sense to me..

Technically, it can only do the reverse, which is output VLOC when the GNS is set to GPS. But in the sim it can take either GPS because the GPSs are really one unit, as the sim only has a single GPS source. But my understanding from folks is you just wouldn't push the buttons like that.

Anyhow, this is how it is for the time being. 🙂

22 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Anyhow, this is how it is for the time being. 🙂

OK understood... luckily I bought the Standard edition of MSFS.. probably a good thing.. 😉

Edited October 4, 20223 yr by Bert Pieke

20 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Anyhow, this is how it is for the time being. 🙂

Interesting discussion.  🙂

Thanks,

Al

On 10/3/2022 at 7:36 PM, Bert Pieke said:

luckily I bought the Standard edition of MSFS.. probably a good thing.. 😉

Wow, nothing like spending a lot of time in good faith explaining something to someone, only to have them tell you not only are they not using the thing in question (that you were legitimately trying to improve in the best compromise you could), but then crack a joke about it sucking.

This place is a trip. 😔

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by MattNischan

45 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

This place is a trip.

Sorry to have offended you.. that was not my intention..  I appreciated you taking the time to explain the situation.