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Wilco/Feelthere broken promises

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Wilco/Feelthere anounced when FSX was released that there airplanes would be updated for FSX at the begining of the year (2007). Since then one plane as been converted the 737 and that was in June. Since FSX Wilco/Feelthere have released 4 new products and service packs for does products. My questions are:1. Should Wilco/Feelthere release new products before upgrading the rest of the aircraft as promised.2. Do you think that Feelthere as enough man power to work on new projects and update the old once in the time frame given?3. Is Wilco/Feelthere bringing out new products to develope new funds and letting there old customer suffer. Basically is it a greedy move?4. Is Wilco/feelthere bringing out new products because they do not have the funds to update the old products as promised. Remember they already collected the money but no updates. I know people who bought the FS9 version since FSX release and using on FS9 and than being able to use it on FSX also. 5. Is this just bad business practice by the two companies?6. Knowing all this would you purchase any more aricraft from them? Do you trust them?

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There are quite a few vendors that promised this. Flightscenery promised an fsx version of the portland 2004 scenery that has never materialized and the guy doesn't even maintain or read his own forums any more on this issue. I hear he has moved on to other projects. Obviously I feel that is shady as is your wilco issue. The software industry gets away with a lot of deceptive practices because you can't return it and get no recourse as a customer other than not buying from them again. In any other industry there would be consequences for this type of behavior.________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

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Which aircraft aren't FX compatible? Just wondering, didn't own any for FS9 so not sure if there were more for FS9 than are listed on the wilco website.Also, the 737 was a free update for FSX compatibility so that's a plus, not sure if they are doing a full upgrade to an FSX only version.Sort of new to the whole wilco/feelthere entanglement so not up to date on all the bad vibes, and haven't had as bad an experience as most.Ian.

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the only FEELTHERE aircrafts not updated to FSX are the Caravan (but it does work to fly) and the CRJs. feelthere has never given an update schedule nor plan for the CRJs nor the caravan.the A300M and A380 ARE NOT feelthere products.--

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I cannot speak to the quality of Wilco/Feelthere products, as I do not own any, but I do know that any company that releases a product, collects your money flawlessly, then when the download system goes wankers and people cannot get the product they paid for, responds to criticism by posting on their website that anyone who starts a thread about the messed up product download system will be banned from their forums...Well, suffice it to say I will never give them a dime.

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As a generic response, I think many vendors found the changes from FS9 to FSX much more significant that initially envisioned. Plus SP1 threw another wrench in the works and many were gun shy about releasing a pre SP1 package. FSX has introduced a new level of animation and detail along with a new level of complexity and computer power required. And most vendors understand there is little head room for complex add-ons and some may just give up on FSX. Bob..

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Here is my lesson learned from this entire FSX experience. From this point forth, I will not upgrade to the next MSFS until after at least one year (maybe 18 months) from its initial release date. It is not worth the headaches, and most of the great Add-Ons that really make MSFS what it is won't be available until around that time anyway. Furthermore, since MSFS wants to release a game that is designed to be ran on future generation hardware, why not wait and get it when that future generation hardware is available. I would imaging that it will be at least another year until I have FSX running up to par with how I have FS9 running now, and for most of the great add-ons to be available for FSX. That means it will probably be another year after that when the next MSFS will be due to come out. No thanks, I will wait and continue to play FSX up through about 2011 or after.

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Well, it's a two-edged sword that we're discussing here.On one hand, we, the FSX end-users, are extremely impatient and push the developers to release add-ons. On the other hand we demand add-ons that are exponentially more complex and detailed compared to what we've seen before.I have to hand it to the folks to Wilco/FT, because they have been very consistently pushing out new planes and I am sure they have been incredibly busy with the releases of the Airbus, the Citation X and the port of the 737-3/4/5 series to FSX.You can debate about the quality of the products all you want, but you definitively cannot complain that they haven't been pushing out add-ons, because they (and Eaglesoft) have been by far the the most active add-on developer for FSX so far and pop out add-ons far faster compared to PMDG or LevelD, who create a pre-hype years ahead about future products. Wilco/FT announces a product a few weeks/months in advance and they more or less quietly deliver.I'd be careful with statements like "broken promises", because then you'd probably have to complain about every single developer.PMDG 737NGX/A320? LevelD 757? PSS FSX Ports? Dreamfleet? AirSimmer A320? FEX? GEX?Pat

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Pat,To play devils advocate here. Does not Wilco/Feelthere have an obligation to finish what they have started before going on to another project. Your right they have come out with citation and Airbus and as you stated..."because they have been very consistently pushing out new planes and I am sure they have been incredibly busy with the releases of the Airbus, the Citation X... "Maybe they should have completed the projects that they promised the comsumer to have done at the begining of the year before going on to the Citation and Airbus.That is a broken promise as I see it.

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First off, the publishers are under no obligation to updated any of there FS9 products to FSX unless the stated so on the original product. There were addons released for FS9 that stated that there will be a free upgrade to FSX when it came out and so there is an obligation there to do what they said. But planes like the Feel there 737 are done with no obligation to do so, and we should commend the publishers for doing this at there own cost. FSX has changed many things and developers are having to rethink a little to get products to work correctly so i guess the first few released may have unseen bugs until all of them are sorted out. I am in no way giveng them any excuse for the way some of them carry on, certainly im not happy with the way Wilco cant even provide there customers with a forum to discuss issues it seems the least they can do, but then we live in a changing world where everyone wants something for nothing and people just cant be satisfied anymore, and we are worse off for it.

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You forget about the people who purchased the planes after Wilco/Feelthere stated they would upgrade for free early 2007. The people that purchased the product with a timeline in mind. Has Wilco/Feelthere not broken a promise to the consumer by not releasing the update early 2007 and publishing other products first before releasing the update.

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Well, they did release the 737 FSX update and I am sure that the CRJ will follow soon. I wouldn't give a dime for statements, like "early 2007", because it really, really doesn't mean anything. At least it is good to hear that updates are planned.Where are the *free* compatibility updates from other companies with the exception of Carenado and the F1 ATR? PMDG won't have any, Eaglesoft and LVLD charges for FSX updates.I am not sure what you expect, although I do understand that you're frustrated with the wait.Pat

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I don't want to get OT, but it was mentioned above, and I did not know where else to respond..."Flightscenery promised an fsx version of the portland 2004 scenery that has never materialized and the guy doesn't even maintain or read his own forums any more on this issue. I hear he has moved on to other projects."Vauchez hasn't mentioned no future updates that I saw. He has been intensly involved in the AirlinerXP project, and from reading the forums, there has been a slight delay in the release of the Airbus. I am sure he will resume on Flight Scenery after that. At least that is what I hope. There is certainly alot of crazy stuff that goes on now a days with Devs, but I don't think Flgiht Scenery is one to be concerned about. I myself am not too happy with the Feelthere/Wilco stuff that has taken place recently, but time will tell I quess. Anyway, sorry to get OT. I thought this would be the place to express my feelings on the matter.

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again and again and again ... stay away from that company. there are enough threads on the forums showing that they are only ripping people off. their products are rubbish and their service non-existent. ==Marten:Weber==P-D920 oc3.64MHz 2GB RAM WinXP ATI X1900+1024MB 2xSATA250 2xVIEWSONIC 19"Need AI? Check www.world-of-ai.com!

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>again and again and again ... stay away from that company.>there are enough threads on the forums showing that they are>only ripping people off. their products are rubbish and their>service non-existent. >>==Marten:Weber==>P-D920 oc3.64MHz 2GB RAM WinXP ATI X1900+1024MB 2xSATA250>2xVIEWSONIC 19">Need AI? Check www.world-of-ai.com!I have to agree. This goes back to the PIC A320 where Wilco screwed the developers of the product by releasing it prematurely. When it was a problem to fly I wanted my money back. They did not respond to my emails first and then told me to wait. For what? I never did get my money back from this bunch and didn't want to get into a *&ssing contest with them so I let it go.

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If you're talking about feelthere I'd have to respectfully disagree. The 737 and the Citation X are very well done at least in my opinion, not perfect, but very well done.One of the complaints many have is Wilco's infamous bug collection form. To me it makes good sense to collect bugs through one input so they can be pooled and analyzed with all the pertinent system and user info instead of a forum which seems a haphazard/inconsistent way of collecting the same information. The one negative I have is the manuals for the 737 and X. They do a good job of getting you flying but don't delve too deep in to the more complex features of the products, especially the citationX. I will note that the forums have been very helpful in resolving that shortfall in information.Edit: Please note that I'm new to there products so at this point I haven't been burned as Len has. So far so good, fingers crossed.Ian.

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The PIC A320 was developed by Anticyclone, not FeelThere. While I have to agree that the A320 was complete and utter rubbish (however maybe 5 years ahead of its time in terms of CPU load), FeelThere is an entirely different league.While their products are not whoa-yay-awesome and their support and QA is questionable, they do keep on working on it and after the 2nd or 3rd service pack they are actually enjoyable.I do enjoy their classic 737, the CRJ and the A320 and Wilco/FT are still extremely active and don't just abandon their projects, like other 1-man garage developers. It ain't Flight1, but...oh well.Pat

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Fact time boys and girls:Feelthere products vs. FSX compatibility:PIC Legacy released for fs9 FREE update for fsXPIC Citation released for BOTH fs9 and fsXAirbus series released for BOTH fs9 and fsXPIC 737 released for fs9 FREE fsX update is availablePIC ERJ released for fs9 FREE fsX update is available777 was released for fs9 FREE fsX update is availableCRJ was released for fs2002 was patched for fs9 and promised a free fsX updateCaravan a $15 product is not officially fsX ready while it can be ported to this version tooThe A380, A400 is NOT a feelThere product.So I don't really see any broken promises instead of (even after the flaming) a company who will not doublecharge their customers for fs versions. It became hip to flame feelThere but can you show me another company with similar productivity and free updates? Time to think...This topic is not about Wilco and their customer service but reliability of a developer.QFAEdited for more accuracy

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I wrote Wilco a email on their customer service address yesterday and want to see what happened to it.Your message To: Info - Wilco Publishing Subject: Customer complaints Sent: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:43:21 +0200was deleted without being read on Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:52:51 +020Great customer serviceDave

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Thank you for hijacking your own thread. This topic is about feelthere and the fsX updates.Your intention is pretty clear. After making fool of yourself with an invalid statement you needed to find another way to make bad reputation for feelThere.Now going back to your new topic. Wilco and feelThere asked probabbly a million times to use their form instead of their email. I have no doubt you've received the email above but let me point that out anyone could make such as especially watching your trend. So resend them your complains using their form and let's see.And for the sake of clear picture; Wilco is WILCO PUBLISHING and feelthere is a development company. While they have contracts to bind them together on certain projects they are a different company run by different people. Marc Anthony (or whoever) is not Wal Mart because you bought his last CD overthereQFA

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QFA? Quintessential Fanboy Association, maybe?My personal experience is that many of the complaints sent via the Wilco support form never make it to the known bugs section nor are later corrected, and no explanation is ever given. All the customer gets in the form of feedback is an autoresponse e-mail acknowledging receipt of the form, and a series of service packs that fail to address many (most) of the problems.What's worse, is that the potential customer never sees that there are a rash of big legitimate complaints with the software in its current form.Wilco and Feelthere have contracts that bind them together, true, and for that I hold FeelThere accountable. It's a crappy customer service arrangement that, after all the negative experiences many of us have had, FeelThere has chosen to continue making. It's not reasonable to let FeelThere push the blame onto a partner they chose to stay in bed with and then act like none of it is their responsibility.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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Once again, the topic is about feelthere and the fsX updates. Bob, you will not loose an opportunity to bass feelthere even in this case they are in fact one of the most positive companies in the industry aren't you. I'm sure if I would take (waste) the time to make fun of your name I could come up with something fun. Going back to the original topic; do you believe FT lied or broke any promise in regard of fsX updates os possible the most active developer to crank out free updates? A yes or no would do the job.QFA

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Forum threads morph in the course of the discussion, and since nobody made you the thread police, I'll feel free to discuss the unhappy direction FeelThere has taken as a developer, and Wilco as a publisher.I think if you can manage to work a search engine you'll find that my initial position was very much in support of FeelThere until they started doing stupid things like moving their Citation X support to Wilco's black hole, and releasing a series of SPs that miss solving problems despite knowing they have the solutions in their hands. They are, in fact, going the way of CaptainSim in their support, which makes them anything but one of the most positive companies in the industry. Quite the opposite, in fact.I call 'em as I see 'em. If you want to call it bashing, so be it, I can live with the criticism of just another nameless chattering voice from the cacophonous thunder of internet background noise.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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>I can live with the criticism of just another nameless>chattering voice from the cacophonous thunder of internet>background noise.>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V>Santiago de Chile:-lol :-lol :-lol :-lolAndr

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