Favorite X Plane 11/12 Helicopter?

[jcomm 5,938]

20 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Should I buy MSFS ?

Yes, you shouldn't 😜

[mSparks 2,086]

36 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Not sharing ! that means you yourself don't have it 😁 nice try.

Meanwhile, in the real world.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2021-06-29/brunner-wins-contract-novasim-mixed-reality-simulator

June 29, 2021, 3:37 PM

Quote

My seat moved in sync with the flight, powered by the fully electric motion system. It felt as near to a real EC145 as I had ever experienced in a simulator.

...

The Navy has already adopted Mixed Reality Flight and integrated it into its Avenger pilot training program to speed proficiency and expand the syllabus.

but military secrets are... you know... secret... (unless you know what to look for)

shampoo "trouble" playing in my head.

Edited November 10, 2022 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

13 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Meanwhile, in the real world.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2021-06-29/brunner-wins-contract-novasim-mixed-reality-simulator

June 29, 2021, 3:37 PM

but military secrets are... you know... secret... (unless you know what to look for)

Fair enough !  

But it does not state anywhere that they prefer X-plane's flight against DCS.  And again , it does not state for a heli , rather a F-16 .  So again here you are not proving it unless i am not reading correctly/

But why are you trying so hard to tell me this ?   My statement was clear about how both sims can create and use any helis a 3pd decides , but DCS has a different nature of flight.  And that link you have embedded from what I read is the EC 145 which XP has and DCS don't , still you don't get the point and again will reply to this post and then I will reply and will keep on going.

You have a good way of twisting the statements which I notice every time. 

X-plane is a rubbish flight sim !

Edited November 10, 2022 by Humpty

[Humpty 751]

31 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Yes, you shouldn't 😜

Ok , will purchase it in a few minutes

Edited November 10, 2022 by Humpty

[mSparks 2,086]

8 minutes ago, Humpty said:

X-plane's flight against DCS

Not sure how many times this needs repeating, but aerodynamics, while insanely complicated, are only around say 1% of whats involved in utilising a helicopter simulator.

8 minutes ago, Humpty said:

rather a F-16

AIUI, Its pretty much the entire US Navy and Air force fleet at this point more than a decade later - fixed and rotary.... LR and Austin been busy.

F4 fixes came from one of the instructors they were working with on "other" projects

https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/x-plane-12-flight-model-update-supersonic-transition-delta-wings-and-mass-properties/

Quote

One of my favorite planes the F-4 Phantom. And one of our alpha testers recently casually mentioned that he was an Israeli Air Force F-4 Phantom flight instructor. I’ve been exchanging emails with him about every 30 minutes or so, on average, for 12-hour-long days, for the past 5 days or so. We have been doing DOZENS of changes of EXEs and ACFs to get the F-4 in X-Plane flying PERFECTLY.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

Not sure how many times this needs repeating, but aerodynamics, while insanely complicated, are only around say 1% of whats involved in utilising a helicopter simulator.

AIUI, Its pretty much the entire US Navy and Air force fleet at this point more than a decade later - fixed and rotary.... LR and Austin been busy.

F4 fixes came from one of the instructors they were working with on "other" projects

https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/x-plane-12-flight-model-update-supersonic-transition-delta-wings-and-mass-properties/

 

Mr . Sparks you are going and have gone way off from what my statement was saying,

I don't care if the US air force uses XP or DCS . my point was simple one, anyone can make any heli in both the sims , as to the nature of usage it's entirely upto the simmer. If you don't get this much then I am not sure what to say.  As I said you will reply with nonsense and then I will reply  and it will keep continuing , no point in discussion. 

Fire up your Robinson , time for you to fly. 

over and out.

[jcomm 5,938]

Break Break 😁😎🤓😜

[Humpty 751]

5 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Break Break 😁😎🤓😜

Lol , i was having a decent argument , there was no ill feeling. 

 

[jcomm 5,938]

Hey, Sparks, US Air Force and other arms also use Prepar3d.

Actually the famous A2A had a contract to produce some specific models.

Being used by such organizations doesn't make a sim better ir worst.

 

[UrgentSiesta 926]

9 hours ago, mSparks said:

No, this isn't true.

The difference is much much more fundamental than that.

DCS is a game engine you can build helicopters for from absolute scratch

X-Plane is a thoroughbred flight simulator where virtually all the hard work is already done for you, right up to "level D simulator" type features such as:

And all that is required for a rendition of a helicopter nothing else can touch is for someone - anyone, they don't even need to be a "developer"  - to do, is fill in the dimensions and engine specs into plane maker and you have one simulated with literally decades of highly qualified experience built in.

DCS doesn't even have an open developer program.

Hence: 

Also

XP can do mil to, potentially better than DCS, for example with a little afternoon tweaking you can jump in the Tigre in VR and use the look targeted gun to burn up delivery trucks bound for obnoxious fans of the not competition while they cry about the latest delays.

Does DCS even have nuclear weapons? (because xplane does...)

Sigh...we already know that XP has a fantastic rapid development engine that delivers excellent results across all XP addons. 

The speed at which a helo addon can be built does not equate to the fidelity of the end results. AND Time-to-Market is completely irrelevant to the majority of flight simmers. What we care about isn't "How Fast?", we care about "How Good?".

And THAT 2nd question even traces directly back to OP here...

The debate at hand, which YOU started, is whether there are any helo addons in other sims that are of at least similar quality to any of the ones in XP.

And the answer to that is resoundingly, "YES! And here's a few examples:..." But for some strange reason you keep dodging the issue, moving the goal posts, tossing red herrings and/or generally failing to support your claims with any substantive or relevant evidence.

We're also not talking about XP's ability to simulate combat of any sort. It's irrelevant to the discussion of addon systems and FM fidelity. 

We tried to talk about the fidelity of the AW 109/SA 315/AB 412/et al in XP, vs same of Mi-8/Mi-24/AH-64/etc, but indirect comparisons seem to create confusion...

So then we tried the direct comparison of Nimbus' Huey vs DCS Huey, with Professional presentation and objective evaluation. Why haven't you responded to that - at all...?

So shall we get back to that (since it's fair, objective, and based on relevant expertise) to answer the question of whether there are any "good" helos available outside XP?

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, Humpty said:

anyone can make any heli in both the sims

In so far as anyone can make a heli writing their own sim 100% from scratch sure.

That looks like say

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1133330

"not stupid" development uses the tools available to get the best outcome for the minimum effort. Nothing touches X-Plane in that respect. They just don't, 

36 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

he debate at hand, which YOU started, is whether there are any helo addons in other sims

I simply said rather than phrasing the question as "what is your favourite helicopter for xplane"

drop the xplane/simulator requirement, and talk about what what makes a helicopter your favourite.

Didn't really expect so many people to get triggered by the absolute fact that planemaker/acf has no rival.

Edited November 10, 2022 by mSparks

[UrgentSiesta 926]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:12 AM, mSparks said:

Meanwhile, in the real world...

...Its pretty much the entire US Navy and Air force fleet at this point more than a decade later - fixed and rotary.... LR and Austin been busy...

...F4 fixes came from one of the instructors they were working with on "other" projects...

"...The Navy has already adopted Mixed Reality Flight and integrated it into its Avenger pilot training program to speed proficiency and expand the syllabus..."

Yes, let's talk about the real world and

"...military secrets are... you know... secret..." (LoL!)

First off, the F-4 hasn't been in active US military service since 1996, and the Tomcat went out just 10 years later.

Further, the "F-4 instructor" above was Huss - the owner of VSkyLabs. Not some shadowy secret squirrel contractor...

I've followed military aviation training trends for a while now. And while I wouldn't be surprised at all to find XP somewhere in there, for all intents and purposes, I can't find any citations of it - other than yours.

"...The Navy has already adopted Mixed Reality Flight and integrated it into its Avenger pilot training program to speed proficiency and expand the syllabus..."

I haven't seen any citations of XP being used in the Avenger program. Please share yours.

OTOH, it's triflingly easy to find public info to indicate that gov't / military still overwhelmingly use Prepar3D:

2022, Pilot Training Next Prepar3D
210 sims spread across 7 training squadrons for USAF T-6 & T-38C

 

2019 & 2021 USAF Pilot Training Next, Prepar3D A2A Simulations T-6 Texan II
https://www.key.aero/article/a2a-simulations-t-6a-texan-ii

We know that MilViz produced a T-45 Goshawk for the USN (and you can experience the excellent 3D model in IFT's version for MSFS).

They also recently produced the T-38C for the USAF, and they're so busy with gov't projects they split the company in two and now MilViz is ONLY for govt projects: https://milvizusa.com/aircraft/military/ (with a good list of current squadrons/units using the specific addons), while BlackBird Sims is the consumer side of the house now.

In fact, I can find more Press Releases for military/gov't contracts using Arma than I can for X-Plane!! (Bohemia Interactive's pro Battle Space)

Then there's VR Simulations, who has a nice public brag page.

And Vertex Solutions, who also lists extensive "secret" gov't contracts right on their website.

And, of course, there's lots of Sekrit Gummint work listed on Prepar3D.com's news and info pages.

Secrets? Gimme a break, man...

And it's not too hard to find that the USAF is still using DCS world for A-10C training:
2021, A-10 Warthog Pilots Are Using The Digital Combat Simulator Video Game To Train In VR

Here's an article citing a former Hornet driver who finds DCS World Hornet to have a "rare" level of high fidelity.

So if X-Plane is so widespread in military simulation, why can't we find even a hint about it when every Tom, Dick and Harry who's selling another solution to the same military brags about it every chance they get? 

"...so many people to get triggered by the absolute fact that planemaker/acf has no rival..."

NOBODY is "triggered" by planemaker's undisputed greatness. It's your absurd contentions that only X-Plane, out of ALL flight simulators, can deliver a high fidelity helo simulation. Of course, you daren't make the same statement about fixed wing because you'd get roundly trounced for that type of fairy tale. Not sure why anyone buys it from you in re helos...

"...aerodynamics, while insanely complicated, are only around say 1% of whats involved in utilising a helicopter simulator..."

And so what is the other 99% comprised of? Can only be systems, and we all know high fidelity systems simulation exists across the board in all the prominent sims.

And as far as I can determine, most Hi-Fi systems in XP addon bypass XP's code, anyway...

Prepar3D, DCS World, and even MSFS have native multi-player network capability. X-Plane has...none? How valuable could XP be for military training if military operations rarely involve solo aircraft?

But you've again shoved the conversation outside the original intent of favorite X-Plane helicopter with these irrelevant comments and personal promos. And you keep coming back to your baseline answer of XP's superiority being the result of PlaneMaker. Which has absolutely nothing to do with your inane claim that the worst X-Plane helo is better than the best helo in all other simulators.

In that regards, still waiting for your opinion on the direct comparison of XP Huey vs DCS Huey by an IRL Army helo driver.

And like you said, this is a debate about helicopters, not about how busy you are with your 744 mod...

Edited November 13, 2022 by UrgentSiesta

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

"...military secrets are... you know... secret..." (LoL!)

First off, the F-4 hasn't been in active US military service since 1996, and the Tomcat went out just 10 years later.

It wasn't the F4 he was discussing in the Q&A (at all), it was the USAF training program and their use of X-Plane. Pretty sure that is secret, and discussing it was the reason they had to pull the Q&A.

It certainly wasn't (if you read the twitter comments) - as they stated - that it wasn't interesting or because it didn't address MSFS, because it was very interesting and being mostly mac guys none of them gave or give a #@#@ about MSFS.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And so what is the other 99% comprised of?

https://www.aviationexam.com/product/21/all-subjects-of-easa-syllabus.aspx

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

have native multi-player network capability. X-Plane has...none?

Ben Supnik did the original vatsim client - that's how he got into Laminar, aiui the current active dev is under

https://github.com/xpilot-project/xpilot

XP is 100% open in users choice of multiplayer communities - that's waaay better than being locked into a single or so native option imho.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

But you've again shoved the conversation outside the original intent of favorite X-Plane helicopter

I posted my 3 favourite helicopters on the very first page.

The Hind (which is only available in any detail in DCS....)

Modern AW109, which is lacking because XP doesn't have synthetic vision

and the Gazelle, which has great freeware for XP.

Hind for favourite military helo

AW109 for favourite passenger helo

Gazelle for favourite personal use helo

It wasn't me that shoved anything off that topic.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

most Hi-Fi systems in XP addon bypass XP's code, anyway...

"some of" sure, helicopters/planes systems are very manufacturer specific - especially helicopters where nearly all manufacturing is done in house

XP has very specific mechanisms in place to make this easy when necessary, without needing give up everything LR have developed just to make minor tweaks.

The R44 is "the worlds favourite helicopter" - there are more R44s in service than every other helicopter type summed together.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by mSparks

[UrgentSiesta 926]

On 11/13/2022 at 12:26 AM, mSparks said:

It wasn't me that shoved anything off that topic.

Well...you did.

But I see that you won't engage on the debate, so we'll just let bygones be bygones.

[Daytona125 225]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:48 AM, Humpty said:

Indian curry ! great flatulence ! 

Should I buy MSFS ?

If you can afford it I'd say yes, definitely. I have both and my time is divided about evenly with both sims. X-plane does good thing in certain scenarios and MSFS does the same. Absolutely no reason not to enjoy both....