Good news for the future jet engines...

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/29/23483889/rolls-royce-easyjet-hydrogen-fuel-jet-engine-test

Noel

Except that 97% of hydrogen is manufactured from fossil fuels, hence why the fossil fuel industry are pushing it. And the energy density is so low you'd need an airliner fuel tank 4 times the size for the equivalent range.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03693-6

Edited November 30, 20223 yr by martin-w

So, Martin, you don't think the developers have considered that before going to all the expense of developing the engine?  Or did they just develop it because it was fun?  Or would it have been better if Elon had developed it first?

Noel

 

 

Hey guys, did y'all miss the part of using only "green hydrogen" in the long term? That is hydrogen produced via solar and tidal energy?

Yes, it would require 4x the amount of Jet-A but think of the "extra lift" the hydrogen would provide! 😆

4 hours ago, birdguy said:

Or would it have been better if Elon had developed it first?

This is one area where that real stable genius listened to the engineers and used fuels infinitely easier to work with, like kerosene and methane.

Cheers!

11 hours ago, birdguy said:

So, Martin, you don't think the developers have considered that before going to all the expense of developing the engine?  Or did they just develop it because it was fun?  Or would it have been better if Elon had developed it first?

Noel

 

 

 

I'm sure they have considered such things Noel. Hence why the article states that very issue and points out that its only viable for short routes.

The biggest issue is the fact that 97% of our hydrogen is from fossil fuels, and green hydrogen is a miniscule fraction of that. So the question is... can the world ramp up renewable energy to the point where the significant number of the world's  short-haul airliners have a sufficient supply of green hydrogen. Or will they find themselves without sufficient green hydrogen and be running on fossil fuel derived hydrogen.

It's interesting research, but unless there's a sudden transformation and a sudden increase in the availability of green hydrogen, I don't see it as a solution any time soon.

From the Nature article...

"It can also be an inefficient use of renewable resources. Using green electricity to make hydrogen at times of peak demand, when that energy could be feeding the grid and displacing electricity generated from fossil fuels, could result in higher overall emissions than intended. Making hydrogen with electricity generated from unabated use of fossil fuels would be even worse."

 

Edited December 1, 20223 yr by martin-w

Then why the research into hydrogen fueled engines?  Isn't that a waste of time and resources?

Noel

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

Then why the research into hydrogen fueled engines?

 

You would need to ask Rolls Royce. I think this is in collaboration with Easy Jet, so maybe they are just concerned about their own airline and intend to manufacture their own green hydrogen. Or maybe they will only run on green hydrogen some of the time, and grey hydrogen at others. What we do know is that green hydrogen is currently in very short supply and expensive to manufacture. 

Its not unusual for companies to develop experimental technology of course, for an application much further down the line. And not unusual to develop technology and then abandon it. For example, Rolls Royce did a lot of development, and spent big money, on the air breathing rocket engine, but then just ended the development. A lot of time effort and money wasted. But then of course Alan Bond formed Reaction Engines and bought the technology. 

Don't forget that turbine engines will run on pretty much anything that will burn, and the primary limiting factor is the cleanliness (literally) of the fuel. Union Pacific experimented with coal-fired turbine locomotives in the early 1960s. I doubt that there's an awful lot of work required to convert a jet engine to burn hydrogen for short periods of time.

Why? There's a variety of reasons - maybe something as simple as PR or there's a government grant that can also be used to subsidize more practical research.

Either way, hydrogen is a pain to work with as a fuel. We can't get the SLS to reliably not leak, I don't want to be a passenger or a ramp worker in close proximity to a hundred planes with minor hydrogen leaks.

Cheers!

I don't blame you, Luke! Have all these folks forgotten the 1937 Hindenburg disaster? 😱

11 hours ago, Luke said:

Don't forget that turbine engines will run on pretty much anything that will burn, and the primary limiting factor is the cleanliness (literally) of the fuel.

 

Yeah, it was a Rolls Royce AE-2100 regional engine, that they tweaked to run on Hydrogen, as a test. They didn't develop a new engine or anything extreme like that. 

 

11 hours ago, Luke said:

Why? There's a variety of reasons - maybe something as simple as PR or there's a government grant that can also be used to subsidize more practical research.

 

It was a "test" to see if "one day" hydrogen powered planes can help clean up aviation. 

 

11 hours ago, Luke said:

Either way, hydrogen is a pain to work with as a fuel. We can't get the SLS to reliably not leak, I don't want to be a passenger or a ramp worker in close proximity to a hundred planes with minor hydrogen leaks.

 

Very true, Leaks are very common with hydrogen because the molecules are cute little baby molecules. they seep out of any seal. 😁

 

 

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by martin-w

On 12/1/2022 at 9:16 AM, birdguy said:

Then why the research into hydrogen fueled engines?  Isn't that a waste of time and resources?

Noel

Because now it's all about ESG, the "anything-but-fossil-fuels" mentality, and virtue-signaling.

Hydrogen is not only very expensive to produce, but it is highly dangerous and difficult to store.

I'm not opposed to research as it could make a very good fuel if it were safer to handle and store and cheaper to make, but it's just not a viable fuel for usage on a mass scale.

Dave

Fringe benefit to aircraft plant workers: High pitched voice hallucinogen mind trips!