Study "level" what is and what's not?

[320Driver 63]

4 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Wouldn't that require a study level airport?

No. The scenery in a LevelD sim is not as good as you might think. What you get to see in P3D with an Addon Airport is quite adequate for the task.

[Reader 2,037]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:56 AM, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Study level is a marketing term.  

The internet does not find "study level" outside flight simulation forums.
It is a generic term created by the flight simulation community and is used
to distinguish between different levels of quality, mainly applied to
judgements of addons. 

It has a secondary purpose, used mainly by the would-be excusive, to 
distinguish between their perceived elevated position and the inferior
masses, who see the flight simulators as a mere game.

As demonstrated by this topic, its exact definition can be anything that
the writer wants it to be, so in fact, its meaning is entirely subjective and
therefore of little or no value without its context.

[jarmstro 2,406]

2 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

No. The scenery in a LevelD sim is not as good as you might think. What you get to see in P3D with an Addon Airport is quite adequate for the task.

It's a scary thought next time I fly that the pilot has learned to get me there using P3D! How did they manage before it came out?😅

[320Driver 63]

23 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's a scary thought next time I fly that the pilot has learned to get me there using P3D! How did they manage before it came out?😅

LOL ! You are putting too much into it. I wrote prepare for 'certain aspects' of a sim checkride or sim assessment.

Rest assured, no one would use any sim to prepare for a flight you have booked 😂

Edited January 15, 2023 by 320Driver

[FAC257 16]

Every time I see the topic of "Study" level in a flight sim topic, I immediately think back to the first time I remember that term being used to describe some flight simulations. Back in the early 90's that term was typically not used when talking about civi-sims. In combat sims, a Study sim was used for singe aircraft simulations like Falcon3.0/4.0 and Jane's F-15, where the simulation was about a single flyable aircraft. Opposite of a Study sim was a Survey sim. These were combat sims with multiple flyable aircraft in a bit lesser complexity, like Jane's USN Fighters, and the Aces series.

 

Forest 

[Kaboki 443]

I dont see "study" as in studying to get a PPL, i see it as a way to explain what complexity to expect. Like DCS world is marketed as a study sim, and quite frankly, you have to "study" to be able to learn that sim and fly in the sim. You are not studying to fly an A10 with its weapons in real life. 

Took me 2 years of studying to feel comfortable in the A10 and after 12 years, im still studying it because I havent learned it all. Il2 is not marketed as a study sim, and you dont need to study much, your pretty much in the air after 2 days killing foes... So it kinda makes sense, and will tell newcomers what to expect.... 

We can hate on the term as much as we want, but its an established term, and to me it makes perfect sense... 

[jon b 2,083]

49 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's a scary thought next time I fly that the pilot has learned to get me there using P3D! How did they manage before it came out?😅

An armchair !

A technique known as armchair flying whereby you prepare for a check flight or manoeuvre check by quietly sitting in an armchair (any sort of chair will do ) and rehearse over and over in your head the routine of the flight or the manoeuvre, such as an engine failure on take off.

The psychology of this is once you have it stored in your memory your brain doesn’t recognise the difference between these imaginary flights in your head and one’s done in a real aircraft, so you can actually gain experience and familiarity just be mental rehearsal. 
 

That’s just the mental part, you obviously need time in a real aircraft for the muscle memory side of things.

So practice on desktop sims is way more beneficial than an armchair. 

[jarmstro 2,406]

2 minutes ago, jon b said:

An armchair !

A study level armchair presumably?😀

[Vali 85]

In the end, I think it is an outdated marketing term 🙂 (and most probably wrongly used by many developers).

I prefer complex, high-fidelity simulation, detailed and so on.

[Kaboki 443]

6 minutes ago, Vali said:

In the end, I think it is an outdated marketing term 🙂 (and most probably wrongly used by many developers).

I prefer complex, high-fidelity simulation, detailed and so on.

Doesnt matter what you think,,,,or prefer,,, the term is there and its widely used, we all pretty much know what to expect when we hear it...  So I don't expect it too change just because random user Vali said so in a thread on Avsim....:p 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,072]

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Wouldn't that require a study level airport?

The Concorde simulator at Brooklands uses very basic scenery plus addons for London, New York and Kai Tak. You don't get more 'study level' than a simulator used by actual Concorde pilots.

The flights start and end on the runway to save time for paying customers.

[jarmstro 2,406]

48 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The Concorde simulator at Brooklands uses very basic scenery plus addons for London, New York and Kai Tak. You don't get more 'study level' than a simulator used by actual Concorde pilots.

The flights start and end on the runway to save time for paying customers.

Indeed! Must be quite something to experience and a lot more immersive than a home PC with the wife shouting orders from downstairs! Can you do a full flight Heathrow to JFK?

[Ray Proudfoot 9,072]

23 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Indeed! Must be quite something to experience and a lot more immersive than a home PC with the wife shouting orders from downstairs! Can you do a full flight Heathrow to JFK?

It is! 😁 Treat yourself. Various packages available including the top one of 2 x 15min sessions taking off, flying headings given by your first officer (a former Concorde pilot) including flying through Tower Bridge before landing back at 27L Heathrow. Lunch too with an actual Concorde menu and a champagne reception.

If you were very rich you may be able to hire it for a few hours but in all honesty the take-off and landing are the exciting bits.

[Stearmandriver 2,338]

3 hours ago, 320Driver said:

I can tell you many pilots use P3D and FSLabs A320 to prepare for certain aspects of a Level D sim checkride or sim assessment. The airport which will be in use is often known previously, so it is quite common to use P3D/FSLabs to familiarize with airport/surroundings/approaches. That works best if the Aircraft does what it should in order not to get distracted by unexpected surprises. The FSLabs A320 does a great job in that regard down to small details.

I haven't come across anyone yet using something else than that though.

Yup, I've definitely done the same with the PMDG 737.  When a training event (or a real flight) involves an airport I haven't been to before, a sim flight there is far more useful than just studying the plates.  Because it forces you to study the plates, but also put the arrival together in a sequence that actually plays out.  So not only do you gain visual familiarity with an area (which isn't really important in IFR flight but can add some SA), but you can actually identify some challenges that will occur in the real flight.  Things like a compressed leg with a steep descent after a restriction that you'll need to be ready for, for instance.

Certainly, these types of threats can be identified without a sim but just by studying, but they become more apparent if you have to play through the operation of a similar aircraft type in a fairly accurately modeled world (and the MSFS world is modeled better than you'll find in any level D sim.)

The two places I remember doing this recently are Jackson Hole, and San Jose Costa Rica.  Both times, it was useful.  Could I have managed the real flight without the sim experience?  Of course.  But did I have a little better SA because of the sim experience?  I did.

[jarmstro 2,406]

16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It is! 😁 Treat yourself. Various packages available including the top one of 2 x 15min sessions taking off, flying headings given by your first officer (a former Concorde pilot) including flying through Tower Bridge before landing back at 27L Heathrow. Lunch too with an actual Concorde menu and a champagne reception.

If you were very rich you may be able to hire it for a few hours but in all honesty the take-off and landing are the exciting bits.

May treat myself when I retire in August. For me it's the climb with afterburners and Mach 2 that I would like.