Landing Fenix versus PMDG 737

[Michael Moe 495]

4 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

 

You are aware that you do not use the trim at all in an A320? (Apart from setting the TO-trim preflight)

 

Yes i am aware ,none failure scenario. Normal law

Michael Moe 

[Bobsk8 12,730]

I posted this thread some weeks ago. After that, I began two Tours on my VA using t he Kodiak, so I stopped flying the Fenix. This morning, I finished the Tours, and started another using Tubeliners, got the Fenix out, and flew a 500 mile flight. I landed the Fenix, and just like always, on the approach, it just refused to settle onto the runway, forcing a go around. I finally landed it on the second attempt and the landing was around 400 FPM.  That's it, the Fenix  is the only aircraft in all my decades of flying sims and in in real life, that I have such inconsistent landings. 

I went to the PMDG site, bought the 737-600, installed it, and took my second flight of the day within a few hours. I had flown 737's in P3D for years, so I was able to stumble through the flight, and on approach , I wondered if I could land it or not.  The approach was a piece of cake, into KBZN, and my landing rate was 147 FPM.....  That is way that I was used to landing tubeliners.  Guess which aircraft I am going to be flying from now on. 😀

[MDFlier 2,031]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:37 PM, bobterri said:

Would some of you who are getting good landing numbers mind sharing your control sensitivity settings.  That would be very helpful.

For my stick (Thrustmaster T1600M), -26 for ailerons,  elevator,  and rudder. 

[andreh 125]

If I've understood it correctly, the order in which to cut thrust and flare is the exact opposite in the A320 vs. 737.

A320: at 20-30 feet: flare then Idle (when the plane calls you a retard.)

737. at 20-30 feet: idle and then flare. And don't fly the approach with the AT on.

If you do it incorrectly, you will botch the landing. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this. 😀

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by andreh

[Christopher Low 5,353]

I start the flare at 30 feet in P3Dv4 with the 737NGX (auto throttle OFF), and it seems to land nicely when doing that.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Christopher Low

[A330B747 15]

On 1/28/2023 at 6:25 PM, jarmstro said:

As far as I am concerned the Fenix is the best product ever released for a home simulator. It's perfectly fit for purpose at the right price.

I agree. ProSim is a killing maschine. They own, i guess, real data from the aircraft that let it behave like the real thing and you feel it alive between your own hands. PMDG is a stellar team (i can't wait the 777) and i love them but ProSim in another level . From their website: 

we offer type specific software solutions for fixed base training devices. These products are based on the aircraft OEM data package and allow type specific NAA device approval.

[RALF9636 1,957]

19 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I posted this thread some weeks ago. After that, I began two Tours on my VA using t he Kodiak, so I stopped flying the Fenix. This morning, I finished the Tours, and started another using Tubeliners, got the Fenix out, and flew a 500 mile flight. I landed the Fenix, and just like always, on the approach, it just refused to settle onto the runway, forcing a go around. I finally landed it on the second attempt and the landing was around 400 FPM.  That's it, the Fenix  is the only aircraft in all my decades of flying sims and in in real life, that I have such inconsistent landings. 

I went to the PMDG site, bought the 737-600, installed it, and took my second flight of the day within a few hours. I had flown 737's in P3D for years, so I was able to stumble through the flight, and on approach , I wondered if I could land it or not.  The approach was a piece of cake, into KBZN, and my landing rate was 147 FPM.....  That is way that I was used to landing tubeliners.  Guess which aircraft I am going to be flying from now on. 😀

I guess you will be flying the Fenix because you want to work on your landing technique. 🙂

Really, wouldn't that be much more rewarding than giving up and going the easy way?

My last ten landings in the Fenix were in the range of 72 to 209 FPM with an average of 157 FPM, no balked landings.

You just need to get your technique right for the Airbus and keep practicing.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by RALF9636

[BWBriscoe 116]

A320...

Is it flare then idle or idle then flare?? The video posted above says idle then flare, but from everything I understood it should be the other way around.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

9 hours ago, A330B747 said:

but ProSim in another level . From their website: 

we offer type specific software solutions for fixed base training devices.

I wouldn't place too much importance on this.  It's kind of like PMDG saying they're licensed by Boeing.  ;)

In reality, fixed based trainers are simply procedures trainers.  They have to have the switches working, and provide the appearance of a flight in order to let crews practice procedures in different phases of flight, but what they don't have to do (and do not do) is provide any sort of realistic flight dynamics.  They cannot be used for certification events, and their flight dynamics are not the same software (and don't really even resemble) the flight dynamics used in the level D / full flight sims that ARE used for certification events.

It's kind of like people talking up X plane's flight dynamics by claiming that it's "certified" for use in training devices.  They're not understanding that the training devices it's used in don't have anything to do with actually flying, just with procedures / scan / SA development.

Not to say prosim (or XP) are bad products at all, just saying that simmers should be careful not to misinterpret the marketing speak as lending more credibility than it really does.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

2 minutes ago, BWBriscoe said:

A320...

Is it flare then idle or idle then flare?? The video posted above says idle then flare, but from everything I understood it should be the other way around.

It's whatever the situation requires.  Thrust management isn't mechanical; throttles are not an on/off switch. 

[lancealotg 95]

I also had some trouble landing the Fenix.

Someone posted a great video explaining the "proper" way to land the airbus. 

After watching this and practicing a few times, I had a marked improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U6uBqtXFHU

 

 

[jpe828 624]

I have great success in the PMDG 737 700. In fact, it is one of my favourite airplanes to fly in the sim. I find they have nailed the ground friction too... doesn't want to run off the runway with a x wind on takeoff or landing. Anyways, my method is let the AP fly the approach to 1000 feet if the weather is good enough to see the runway, down to mins if the weather is really bad. Disconnect at 1000 ft, leave the autothrottle in until maybe 500-300 ft, fly the rest of the approach. Very slight flare, but really just using power to fly it onto the runway. Power idle when I hear the 30 callout, or just before. Have watched lots of 737 vids and I notice this is what they do. Usually works quite nice, although I have not used anything to monitor my actual rate of descent on touchdown. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by jpe828

[Max Kraus 339]

FSiPanel will rate your landings and give touchdown rate. I was surprised using this as often what I though was a harder than normal landing only rated as 150-200 feet/sec. So that taught me I suppose not to over flare and fly it right in.

[Bobsk8 12,730]

14 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

I guess you will be flying the Fenix because you want to work on your landing technique. 🙂

Really, wouldn't that be much more rewarding than giving up and going the easy way?

My last ten landings in the Fenix were in the range of 72 to 209 FPM with an average of 157 FPM, no balked landings.

You just need to get your technique right for the Airbus and keep practicing.

 

I spent more time trying to get consistent landings with the Fenix, that I spent on getting my PPL. I purchased FSI panel which I have never needed for any aircraft in three decades of simming, and practiced landing after landing. I just don't like the way the Airbus behaves on landing, it is like someone else is flying the aircraft. A day and a half with the PMDG 737, and I am nailing every landing. The Fenix is going to sit in the hangar. 

[Michael Moe 495]

8 hours ago, flyhalf said:

FSiPanel will rate your landings and give touchdown rate. I was surprised using this as often what I though was a harder than normal landing only rated as 150-200 feet/sec. So that taught me I suppose not to over flare and fly it right in.

Is it accurate? My virtual airline also rate but its alot different results to FSI.

Also saving the result gives a third result. Very strange and not very clever. 

I stopped looking at it and  MSFS approaches is just pure visual on my end. (Fun factor)

 

Michael Moe