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Ray Proudfoot

How much would you compromise to fly your favourite acft?

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1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I tried setting VSync off a few weeks ago at a quiet airport so Ai wasn’t a factor and fps in the 40s caused micro stutters. I didn’t bother checking if CPU / GPU was 100%. It’s doubtful GPU was given the quiet airport.

I’ve set my scenery settings low deliberately so more Ai can appear. It’s annoying when on finals to a large airport to see dozens of them deleted to maintain 30.

I’ve done all I can with this PC. I’m happy with 30 when airborne too.

Why would you turn VSync off?  If you do it, the fps will not be in sync with the monitor refresh rate, which will lead to microstutters.

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12 minutes ago, Afterburner said:

Why would you turn VSync off?  If you do it, the fps will not be in sync with the monitor refresh rate, which will lead to microstutters.

I was curious. I’m not convinced I can set refresh rates as you suggest. It’s not a VSync - capable monitor. The manual states only 30Hz and 60Hz can be set for a Display Port connection.

What’s your hardware and monitor? And what do you set?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
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3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I was curious. I’m not convinced I can set refresh rates as you suggest. It’s not a VSync - capable monitor. The manual states only 30Hz and 60Hz can be set for a Display Port connection.

What’s your hardware and monitor? And what do you set?

Are you sure you are not confusing Vsync with Gsync?  The latter is a technology used by some monitors that syncs the screen refresh rate with the current in-game frame rate, which eliminates stutter and tearing in games where the fps fluctuates (within certain limits). In P3Dv5, you may have seen the checkbox "Variable Refresh Rate", which activates that feature. (In some monitors, it's called FreeSync). I don't think that you monitor supports either one.

Vsync, on the other hand, is different, and it's not something that a monitor needs to "support": It forces the in-game fps to be in sync with the set screen refresh rate (so it's the other way around). If you set your screen to 30 Hz, the game limits the fps to 30 as long as Vsync is activated in-game. If you set your screen to 40 Hz, then the (maximum) fps is 40. This is why Vsync works with every monitor (and no matter whether you use an HDMI or Display Port cable). The benefit here is that movements are fluid and free of tearing. I assume you know the difference between screen refresh rate and in-game fps.

All you need to do is to keep the in-game fps unlimited and Vsync on (while turning off "Variable Refresh Rate"). Did you do that when you checked 40 Hz with P3Dv3?  A monitor that is capable of 30 Hz should be able to deliver refresh rates that are between 30 and 60 Hz.

I am currently using a rather cheap Philips monitor that is FreeSync capable. I am able to set that monitor to any fixed refresh rate between 30 and 75 Hz, although there is slight flicker at 30 Hz (and stroboscopic mouse movements). I have another FreeSync monitor by AOC (G2590FX) that can deliver rates between 29 and 144 Hz.

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@Afterburner, I do know the difference between VSync and GSync. My monitor doesn’t support the latter.

I also understand the purpose of VSync and its use in P3D. Why do you think I set my monitor to 30Hz as opposed to the default 60Hz?

11 minutes ago, Afterburner said:

All you need to do is to keep the in-game fps unlimited and Vsync on (while turning off "Variable Refresh Rate"). Did you do that when you checked 40 Hz with P3Dv3?

There isn’t a VRR option in v3. FPS was Unlimited and VSync remained on.

12 minutes ago, Afterburner said:

A monitor that is capable of 30 Hz should be able to deliver refresh rates that are between 30 and 60 Hz.

Really? I will investigate in slow time but probably not with this computer. The documentation with the BenQ didn’t suggest that.

As I said earlier it’s already incapable of maintaining 30 at busy airports so where’s the logic in demanding an ever higher frame rate?

Without knowing what graphics card you’re using the monitor info on its own isn’t terribly helpful.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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@Afterburner, one final thing. With your username and forum image I trust you’re still flying Concorde. FSX perhaps?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Oh, I forgot to include information about my video card: It's a GeForce GTX 1660 Super. Not very fast these days, but it was inexpensive and good enough for Full HD.

The logic behind "demanding" (I would call it allowing) a higher frame rate is to have better fluidity in panning, instruments and mouse cursor if you are outside busy airports. If I am able to achieve >30fps during 90% of my flight, but it's only at busy airports that the fps drops to 30 or below, why should I limit to 30 all the time if my hardware allows me to go for higher?  Yes, you may see some stutter if the fps drops below the screen refresh rate, but is it that big of a deal on the ground, where you move slowly and focus on the airport?  Not for me. It doesn't mean that I should go for 60 fps (the hardware won't handle it), but something between 36-45 Hz or fps is what I consider a sweet spot.

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5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Afterburner, one final thing. With your username and forum image I trust you’re still flying Concorde. FSX perhaps?

No, I have not flown Concorde since I bought a new computer in 2020 and installed P3Dv4 and MSFS2020. Back then, I was waiting for the new Concorde in expectation that it would be released for the latter version. The wait seems long, but knowing what the new Concorde would be capable of, the version for FSX and P3Dv3 did not give me the desired satisfaction any longer.

Edited by Afterburner

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2 minutes ago, Afterburner said:

The wait seems long, but knowing what the new Concorde would be capable of, the version for FSX and P3Dv3 did not give me the desired satisfaction.

It’s been interminable and extremely frustrating. But release does seen close now for P3Dv5. If you want to fly it soon you’re going to have to buy that version. The sim base is built on solid ground as opposed to the shifting sands of MSFS.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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9 minutes ago, Afterburner said:

The logic behind "demanding" (I would call it allowing) a higher frame rate is to have better fluidity in panning, instruments and mouse cursor if you are outside busy airports.

That’s where ChasePlane is worth its weight in gold. View changes via a key press are so much better than panning with a mouse. In any case I don’t do much panning around the cockpit. Yes, I can see it’s not terribly fluid but 30 is fine for flying and crucially, landing.

Are you going to get a faster card? Surely essential for Concorde in whatever sim you decide on.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Yes, I recently dumped P3Dv4 and use a developer license for v5, which allows me to pay-as-you fly (one-month subscription is just $10) whenever I have a desire for it. I expect v6 to be released sometime this year, which is why I opted for the subscription. I am prepared for the new Concorde, but I will need to reduce the settings, because I only have 6GB VRAM.

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I guess I will need to upgrade my GPU rather sooner than later. The question is by how much, which is why I am waiting for v6: Should that sim be good, it makes sense to go for a really good GPU. Should v6 be underwhelming, then a GPU that is "just good" will suffice. I don't plan to switch to 4K resolution.

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10 hours ago, Afterburner said:

Why would you turn VSync off?  If you do it, the fps will not be in sync with the monitor refresh rate, which will lead to microstutters.

At 60/2, through NVidia panel setting, it has no effect on my PC.

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Intel i7 6700K @4.3. 32gb Gskill 3200 RAM. Z170x Gigabyte m/b. 28" LG HD monitor. Win 10 Home. 500g Samsung 960 as Windows home. 1 Gb Mushkin SSD for P3D. GTX 1080 8gb.

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6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The sim base is built on solid ground as opposed to the shifting sands of MSFS.

I would not call an ungodly amount of legacy code that demands registry hacks to operate correctly and a significant amount of money to even look acceptable or allow you to use the most basic features, such as assigning different controls to different aircraft, to be solid ground. 

MSFS, on the other hand, offers an astonishing high value for the base package, including default aircraft that are unheard of in terms of complexity and navigation capabilities. The base simulator with AAU1, has photo scenery for the whole world, over 100 hand-crafted airports, and multiple advanced default aircraft that can be happily used by experienced users.

Regarding the “shifting sands”, that might be true for developers, but, as a user, I want my software to evolve and constantly offer new capabilities. As I don’t regularly opt for the betas, I don’t remember the last time I had an issue due to the regular sim or world updates. 

Quote

That’s where ChasePlane is worth its weight in gold. View changes via a key press are so much better than panning with a mouse.

Just for the record, this is totally possible with the built-in camera systems on all platforms besides P3D. I have multiple (internal and external) custom cameras programmed that are activated by pressing either a key or joystick button on all sims that I use. 

Edited by GCBraun
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PC1: AMD Ryzen 7800X3D | Zotac RTX 4090 Trinity | Asus TUF X670E-Plus | G.SKILL Trident Z5 NEO 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL30 | 4TB NVMe  | Noctua NH-D15 | Asus TUF 1000W Gold | be quiet! Pure Base 500DX | Noctua NH-D15S | LG OLED CX 48"

PC2: AMD Ryzen 7700X | PowerColor Radeon RX 6800 XT Red Dragon | MSI MPG B650I EDGE  ITX | G.SKILL Flare Expo X5 32GB DDR5 PC 6000 CL32 | 2TB NVMe  | Cooler Master Hyper | Lian Li 750W SFX Gold | Lian Li TU150 | SAMSUNG Odyssey G9 49"

GoFlight GF-PRO NG 737 Yoke System - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle - MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - TrackIR - Stream Deck XL + Stream Deck Plus
 

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2 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I would not call an ungodly amount of legacy code that demands registry hacks to operate correctly and a significant amount of money to even look acceptable or allow you to use the most basic features, such as assigning different controls to different aircraft, to be solid ground.

Which registry hacks are you referring to? I don't think I use a single hack. But actually, "ungodly" amounts of legacy code are the exact definition of "solid ground". That said: I think most of this legacy code has been reworked by now, mostly keeping backward compatibility.


Best regards, Dimitrios

7950X - 32 GB - RX6800 - TrackIR - Power-LC M39 WQHD - Honeycomb Alpha yoke, Saitek pedals & throttles in a crummy home-cockpit - MSFS for Pilotedge, P3D for everything else

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3 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I would not call an ungodly amount of legacy code that demands registry hacks to operate correctly and a significant amount of money to even look acceptable or allow you to use the most basic features, such as assigning different controls to different aircraft, to be solid ground. 

LM bought the legacy code and were restricted on what they could change in all probability. They’ve taken it from DX9 to DX12, 32-bit to 64-bit and for this user, transformed the sim.

I’m completely happy with what v5 gives me.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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