Austin told me the anti-aliasing is not broken

[efis007 894]

I found a video where the various AAs are compared.
I apologize if MSFS is in the video but unfortunately I didn't find anything with XP.
Observing the test results, I agree with the author of the video in asserting that TAA is the best, I was impressed to see how TAA manages to effectively smooth the square frames of the instruments which were previously conspicuously serrated.

 

[mSparks 2,094]

1 hour ago, Skylon5000 said:

Jump to 1:02 and continue the movie

with TAA the car is still missing any kind of lighting/highlights/reflections the same as the last screenshot, and those good grief trees are a g_dawful blurry hell mess

And that purple stripe on the back of the car with TAA.... OMG now I really hope LR don't touch that with a barge pole.

Edited April 6, 2023 by mSparks

[Skylon5000 14]

15 minutes ago, efis007 said:

I apologize if MSFS is in the video but unfortunately I didn't find anything with XP.

You can't find one because XP doesn't support any of the methods mentioned. 😭 Thanks for the video, that shows very nicely what is possible today.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,896]

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

and those good grief trees are a g_dawful blurry hell mess

In an ideal world we could have TAA without the blurry trees, but one look at MSFS trees (plus those in the posted video) are indeed blurry/smudged.  I'll take the sharpness in XP12 trees, rather than the smudgy ones in MSFS any day.

[Daube 355]

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

with TAA the car is still missing any kind of lighting/highlights/reflections the same as the last screenshot, and those good grief trees are a g_dawful blurry hell mess

Yes, the trees are a bit blurry (when moving), but there are no missing reflections. Maybe you haven't noticed the TAA sequence was taken with clear sky, while the right part is with cloudy sky ?

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

And that purple stripe on the back of the car with TAA.... OMG now I really hope LR don't touch that with a barge pole.

I checked the video again in maximum quality and couldn't see the issue with the purple stripe on the back of the car. Can you elaborate ?

From my side, I really hope LR can implement TAA in XP12 soon 🙂

[Daube 355]

4 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

In an ideal world we could have TAA without the blurry trees, but one look at MSFS trees (plus those in the posted video) are indeed blurry/smudged.  I'll take the sharpness in XP12 trees, rather than the smudgy ones in MSFS any day.

What would be really nice to get in XP12 is the adjusted tree colours based on the ground texture below. It drastically improves the rendering of the forests, and the "integration" of autogen trees anywhere. A very nice feature.

[mSparks 2,094]

1 hour ago, Daube said:

Maybe you haven't noticed the TAA sequence was taken with clear sky, while the right part is with cloudy sky ?

I initially thought that may be the case, but TAA lacks them throughout the entire video at every sun direction. 

What TAA is doing is pretty obvious, it fixes detail by making everything blurry, and fixes sun shimmer by removing all the reflections.

There is a name for those solutions in flight sim. FSX with motion blur, and yep, many people do still prefer FSX with motion blur, I know at least one flight simmer that flies XP11 with DOF on all the time, and another that flies orthophoto with no 3D objects because thats what they prefer.

I just hope LR looks at those preferences, shrugs and moves on, devoting time to things that actually improve flight sim for the vast majority of people.

Edited April 7, 2023 by mSparks

[Daube 355]

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I initially thought that may be the case, but TAA lacks them throughout the entire video at every sun direction. 

What TAA is doing is pretty obvious, it fixes detail by making everything blurry, and fixes sun shimmer by removing all the reflections.

There is a name for those solutions in flight sim. FSX with motion blur, and yep, many people do still prefer FSX with motion blur, I know at least one flight simmer that flies XP11 with DOF on all the time, and another that flies orthophoto with no 3D objects because thats what they prefer.

I just hope LR looks at those preferences, shrugs and moves on, devoting time to things that actually improve flight sim for the vast majority of people.

No, TAA doesn't remove any reflection. We know you hate TAA and we know you love to spread false information, though. 

[mSparks 2,094]

4 minutes ago, Daube said:

No, TAA doesn't remove any reflection. We know you hate TAA and we know you love to spread false information, though. 

I could of course be wrong, timestamp me where it has them and Ill happily post a screenshot and admit it.

[Daube 355]

For each sequence, you can clearly see reflections on roof when passing under the gate and in the first left turn right after that, where you can see the top of the poles and the lines with flags reflected on the rood of the car. The very first sequence also has more clouds, which makes them visible on the back window of the car.

[mSparks 2,094]

8 minutes ago, Daube said:

For each sequence, you can clearly see reflections on roof when passing under the gate and in the first left turn right after that, where you can see the top of the poles and the lines with flags reflected on the rood of the car. The very first sequence also has more clouds, which makes them visible on the back window of the car.

Im talking about the likes of the back window of the car and spoiler that is having all its light reflections blurred to nothing/black because it is moving.

Edited April 7, 2023 by mSparks

[Skylon5000 14]

The higher your resolution, the less the trees are blurry. This is totally logical who seriously deals with TAA.  You said you fly at 1080p, yes then TAA will most likely be rather counterproductive. But from this YOU should not deduce that Laminar should keep their hands off TAA. It's like in life, there is not only black and white. And I can tell you, with TAA everything is fantastically sharp on my 4K monitor. Rather the old MSAA technology makes everything blurry. I have mentioned the reasons several times. (MSAA only smoothes the edges of the polygons, that was not more.) And please always keep in mind that Youtube videos are often compressed. I only used the video to show what I'm talking about, I didn't want to win a sharpness contest.

And what makes the discussions so difficult. I show you 4k TAA videos, but you watch them on 1080p screens and derive your results. And that's just not possible.  I can't also discuss the intensity of colors with a black and white TV.
 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Skylon5000

[mSparks 2,094]

22 minutes ago, Skylon5000 said:

you fly at 1080p

PSVR is 1080x1080 per eye, more like 1K... still better than any 4K display Ive seen, a lot cheaper and takes up a lot less space.

22 minutes ago, Skylon5000 said:

But from this YOU should not deduce that Laminar should keep their hands off TAA.

I dont, I deduce it from the hundreds highly trained gfx programmers and designers creating AAA games going out to 100s of millions of gamers producing screenshots like

And the numerous titles that did adopt it now dropping it completely from their development pipeline because its a massive development resource hog and source of bug reports for very very questionable results.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by mSparks

[Skylon5000 14]

 

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

PSVR is 1080x1080 per eye, more like 1K... still better than any 4K display Ive seen, a lot cheaper and takes up a lot less space.

Sorry, but what you write here makes no sense in so many ways that it's hard to know where to start. What do VR glasses (and then with a drastically poor resolution) have to do with a 4K screen?

Because you keep showing the picture again and again, even though I've already written you three times, ghosting is no longer the problem, I'm now writing you the solution again very clearly.

Velocity Clamping, Velocity Clamping, Velocity Clamping, Velocity Clamping, Velocity Clamping.

Has it arrived now?

Edit:

Oh, and let me get this straight, you watched the videos and everything we're discussing here through your low resolution glasses?

Edited April 7, 2023 by Skylon5000

[mSparks 2,094]

11 minutes ago, Skylon5000 said:

ghosting is no longer the problem

for AAA games developers with 100s of graphics engineers paid $400,000 and more a year each. It would still be a problem LR would have to solve on their own from scratch.

11 minutes ago, Skylon5000 said:

What do VR glasses (and then with a drastically poor resolution)

Because as far as Im concerned if you arent on VR, regardless of the resolution, your set up is deeply flawed and any opinion on new graphics technologies biased by very outdated thinking about how to do flight simulator graphics, you might as well be insisting Ford motor company has insufficient investment in modern horse shoe manufacturing technologies. 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by mSparks