March 27, 20233 yr When climbing aboard a commercial airliner who do we have to fear the most? A pilot becoming disabled or an unruly passenger? These cabin incidents seem to be on the rise. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/delta-passenger-opens-door-arrested_n_64211b61e4b0ad12f3491209 Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 27, 20233 yr Looks like this person had some kind of a breakdown and freaked out. Aerophobia or something akin to that. But yes, these incidents do seem to be on the increase, and most of them are fueled by alcohol I would say. In my opinion alcohol should be banned on all flights and I would breathalyzer people before boarding. I'm sure my suggestion won't be popular with many and we'll get responses like "why should well behaving people suffer for the actions of the few". And I would say that the actions of a few, at 35,000 feet, could catastrophically impact those well behaving people.
March 27, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, martin-w said: In my opinion alcohol should be banned on all flights and I would breathalyzer people before boarding. Oh yes, how about all the restaurants, and bars at the airport that sell all the alcoholic beverages? You missed those for sure. Maybe we should also fingerprint everybody, have a psychological evaluation one on one before boarding, etc. No matter what restriction on top of restrictions we have still will not be enough for some. The irony is that we the crewmembers are sometimes targeted by TSA or other agencies more than a potential suspect passenger. Edited March 27, 20233 yr by LRBS 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 27, 20233 yr Author Well, LRBS, since crew members are responsible for flight safety and operating the aircraft I would expect that they would be scrutinized more often and more closely than suspected passengers. But any passenger who appears drunk or has alcohol on his breath should be given a breathalyzer check and if it exceeds the limit for drunk drivers they be denied boarding. Most passengers are responsible drinkers and while I don't support banning alcoholic beverages from inflight services, limits should be placed on the amount of alcohol a passenger is served inflight. Say one drink per passenger per 2 hours of flight time. Therefore more drinks can be served during longer flights. Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 27, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, birdguy said: Well, LRBS, since crew members are responsible for flight safety and operating the aircraft I would expect that they would be scrutinized more often and more closely than suspected passengers. But any passenger who appears drunk or has alcohol on his breath should be given a breathalyzer check and if it exceeds the limit for drunk drivers they be denied boarding. Most passengers are responsible drinkers and while I don't support banning alcoholic beverages from inflight services, limits should be placed on the amount of alcohol a passenger is served inflight. Say one drink per passenger per 2 hours of flight time. Therefore more drinks can be served during longer flights. Noel Noel, It is obvious that you are not familiar at all with how we the crewmembers are scrutinized and how often. At the same time, you also don't know how ticket agents are trained and the guidelines that they have to follow when interacting with passengers. Again, you quite don't understand that even if you appear to smell alcohol, there are other steps before you might be required for a breathalyzer test by someone trained and qualified. And for the passenger alcohol limit before boarding and testing, I wish you luck with this utopia. Like many other people not knowing the rules and guidelines you think that some limits should be enforced regarding alcohol consumption while on a flight. YES, THERE ARE! 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 28, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, LRBS said: It is obvious that you are not familiar at all with how we the crewmembers are scrutinized and how often. I take it you are not satisfied with crew member scrutinization. How so? Give me some details on how you are put upon. 2 hours ago, LRBS said: you also don't know how ticket agents are trained and the guidelines that they have to follow when interacting with passengers. Give me some examples. Educate me. Can there be improvements? If not tell me why. 2 hours ago, LRBS said: Again, you quite don't understand that even if you appear to smell alcohol, there are other steps before you might be required for a breathalyzer test by someone trained and qualified. What steps? Is it too much to ask for someone to be trained and qualified to administer a breathalyzer? If so, why? 2 hours ago, LRBS said: YES, THERE ARE! Tell me what they are. Instead of scolding me for being dumb, educate me. Tell me why improvements in the system cannot be made. Are you satisfied with the way things are now? As a crew member are you satisfied with unruly and perhaps dangerous passengers flying with you? Which member of the crew are you? Noel Edited March 28, 20233 yr by birdguy The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 28, 20233 yr 43 minutes ago, birdguy said: I take it you are not satisfied with crew member scrutinization. How so? Give me some details on how you are put upon. Give me some examples. Educate me. Can there be improvements? If not tell me why. What steps? Is it too much to ask for someone to be trained and qualified to administer a breathalyzer? If so, why? Tell me what they are. Instead of scolding me for being dumb, educate me. Tell me why improvements in the system cannot be made. Are you satisfied with the way things are now? As a crew member are you satisfied with unruly and perhaps dangerous passengers flying with you? Which member of the crew are you? Noel Noel, The most important thing is to emphasize that I did not call you "dumb"! I really don't understand why would you say that. All I said is that you are unfamiliar with our training nor with the legal requirements to take a breathalyzer test. I hope that you realize that this is not the place to discuss our training curriculum or capacities as a crew member. To conclude this, I'm not gonna get involved in any unproductive discussions, especially the way you approach this. Edited March 28, 20233 yr by LRBS 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 28, 20233 yr Author When I first wrote that I did not use the word 'dumb', I used the word i-g-n-o-r-a-n-t. But that for some reason that is a 'word not allowed' so I edited the response and used the word 'dumb' instead. Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 28, 20233 yr Yeah, I still sometimes think FedEx or UPS would be the way to go. Someone comes round to your place, gives you a shot to sedate you, packs you into a crate, and you get delivered to your final destination address. Security, customs, immigration and all that take place behind the scenes, no need to bother with it. Liquid nutrition is fed to you through a tube. Just the evacuation in case of an emergency with 300+ passengers asleep in their containers on cargo planes might be a problem. Just a joke of course, but if it were real, there's no way I could stand it. I'm too fidgety and way too claustrophobic. The thought of waking up two hours into a 24 hour journey in a tiny economy crate in complete darkness, not being able to move even a centimeter, and not knowing how much longer til someone gets me out, no way! But it'd be the only way I could think of off the top of my head to eliminate these incidents entirely.
March 28, 20233 yr 12 hours ago, LRBS said: Oh yes, how about all the restaurants, and bars at the airport that sell all the alcoholic beverages? You missed those for sure. Maybe we should also fingerprint everybody, have a psychological evaluation one on one before boarding, etc. No matter what restriction on top of restrictions we have still will not be enough for some. Err... we need to eat, so restaurants are fine, but they don't have to sell booze. As for bars, in my opinion, an airport is no place for a bar. We visit an airport to fly, not to get boozed up. As for fingerprints, in case you aren't aware, passports need to be shown, bags are scanned, metal detectors used, and body searches if required. And yes airports do currently take fingerprints upon arrival to the US. But of course, I wasn't saying anything about other security measures at airports, just booze, and for me, no booze on an aircraft and no booze on airport premises in restaurants or bars, would suit me fine. Unless of course, you are happy with the scenario below https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tui-passengers-man-open-door-flight-b2146672.html Quote TUI holidaymakers feared for their lives after an “intoxicated passenger” was heard making threats before trying to open the plane’s emergency exit mid-flight. The man reportedly told fellow passengers “See you in heaven” before trying to open the cabin door at cruising altitude. If you truly are a crewmember, then I would have thought that eliminating the catastrophic threat of drunk passengers opening doors at 40,000 feet would be a popular notion for you.
March 28, 20233 yr 11 hours ago, birdguy said: Say one drink per passenger per 2 hours of flight time. Therefore more drinks can be served during longer flights. Trouble is Noel, they get drink even before they get on the plane. I say zero alcohol permitted on flights or airport premises. An airport is for flying, not having a drunken party. I know that if a person is deemed "too drunk" they can be kicked off, but clearly that "hmm... I think thy look okay" philosophy isn't working, or we wouldn't have multiple incidents of drunken passengers causing fights, punching crew and passengers and attempting to depressurize cabins. Its only a matter of time before there's a complete disaster and multiple lives lost, if they allow this scenario to continue. Its easy for me to be draconian regarding this, you see, because I never drink, zero addiction. 😁 So I knew there was a very good chance someone would come along that likes a drink or two and and freaks out at my audacity to suggest zero booze at airports. 😏 Edited March 28, 20233 yr by martin-w
March 28, 20233 yr 24 minutes ago, martin-w said: ttps://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tui-passengers-man-open-door-flight-b2146672.html If you truly are a crewmember, then I would have thought that eliminating the catastrophic threat of drunk passengers opening doors at 40,000 feet would be a popular notion for you. This is so amazing how people embarrass themselves with these kinds of wrong statements and the desire of arguing at any cost. AIRCRAFT DOORS CANNOT BE OPENED IN MIDFLIGHT! 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 28, 20233 yr 26 minutes ago, LRBS said: AIRCRAFT DOORS CANNOT BE OPENED IN MIDFLIGHT! Oh thank god! Thank god for physics. Differential pressure rules, I say. 👍 But of course... I didn't say "opening doors" I actually said THREAT of opening doors. The article I linked to said "threaten" also. And a threat is enough to freak out passengers and result in mayhem in the cabin. 🙂 Doesn't stop a drunken passenger punching crew in the gob and generally being very violent and nasty to you and your colleagues, of course. Maybe even being a bit stabby with a sharp implement. You could of course take a course in Jeet Kune do, or Wing Chun, but I suggest you jump on board with my suggestion that we ban all alcohol from Airport premises and aircraft. What do you say? I have YOUR safety in mind here. Quote This is so amazing how people embarrass themselves with these kinds of wrong statements and the desire of arguing at any cost No need to be rude. If a person is in error, then correct them politely and in a friendly manner. And perhaps take this conversation a little less seriously. 😏 So I take it that, as a crew member, you have no issue with drunken passengers on your flights? How do YOU suggest we deal with the increasing number of incidents of drunken passengers on flights? What is YOUR solution? Edited March 28, 20233 yr by martin-w
March 28, 20233 yr 6 hours ago, LRBS said: The most important thing is to emphasize that I did not call you "dumb"! I really don't understand why would you say that. All I said is that you are unfamiliar with our training nor with the legal requirements to take a breathalyzer test. I hope that you realize that this is not the place to discuss our training curriculum or capacities as a crew member. To conclude this, I'm not gonna get involved in any unproductive discussions, especially the way you approach this. Edited 6 hours ago by LRBS Assuming you are cabin crew, it would have been interesting to have factual information from your perspective, rather than aggressive dismissals of comments made by others. I can see you disagree with much of what has been said, but I am not clear whether you feel there is a problem with difficult passengers, or not. And why should you feel this is not the place to discuss crew training in a generalised way. It's very relevant and you don't have to identify an airline or give away security information. It could have made the discussion more productive. John B
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