March 28, 20233 yr 4 hours ago, martin-w said: How do YOU suggest we deal with the increasing number of incidents of drunken passengers on flights? What is YOUR solution? I'm sorry that you feel that way. We should be careful about news media statements where most of the time they distort the truth just in purpose for ratings. This is another perfect example of how to create chaos and drive people crazy, more so in this environment. Is this a problem? Of course, it is. The main issue here is all about decency, education and certain people show total disrespect. But there is good news for people concerned about this issue. There are specific protocols to deal with, which none of us the crewmembers or the flight attendants will discuss publicly. I hope you can understand. You ask me about my solution, I can't educate any unruly passenger (unfortunately, there are too many), but, if a flight attendant can't reason with one of these individuals and brings it to my attention it is very simple. Before closing the door I have that person arrested and off the airplane. During the flight, which I dearly hope that you will never ever experience, protocols are more invasive and quite drastic. In both cases interfering with the crewmember's duty is a federal offense and is punished by laws. All these cases even though are on the rise, some estimate to be 1 unruly passenger in about 1,000 flights, far fewer than compared to drunk driving which is somewhere above 10,000 deaths/per year or higher. Edited March 28, 20233 yr by LRBS 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 28, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, LRBS said: We should be careful about news media statements where most of the time they distort the truth just in purpose for ratings. This is another perfect example of how to create chaos and drive people crazy, more so in this environment. Err... no, its not media shenanigans, its on the increase. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2014/aug/01/are-more-people-getting-drunk-on-planes Quote The issue has not gone unnoticed by the aviation authorities. According to the International Air Transport Association (IATA), who represent 240 airlines (equivalent to 84% of total air traffic), “unruly passenger incidents” are a “significant daily operational challenge” for their members. Last year the organisation received reports of 8,000 such incidents, with alcohol a high-ranking contributing factor (not being allowed to smoke, and getting annoyed with other passengers are other common causes). This is big jump; in 2011 6,000 incidents were reported, in 2007 just 500. 3 hours ago, LRBS said: There are specific protocols to deal with, which none of us the crewmembers or the flight attendants will discuss publicly. Well your "protocol" isn't working is it, its on the increase. Perhaps you need a new "secret" protocol. If incidents are increasing its logical to adapt with the changing nature of the threat. 3 hours ago, LRBS said: Before closing the door I have that person arrested and off the airplane. Its the ones already on the plane and in flight that are the issue. 3 hours ago, LRBS said: far fewer than compared to drunk driving I should certainly hope so. Nonetheless, its on the rise... despite your "protocols". I'm 65, and years ago there was very little of this nonsense. Its a new trend. A new trend that's fueled by alcohol. Alcohol impairs the frontal lobes of the brain, the region responsible for cognition, thought memory and judgment. Thus people do dumb things when under the influence. So if alcohol is a causal factor for the issue, then ban it in airports and on planes. Its not a big issue for a person to go without booze for a few hours. The last place you need individuals with impaired frontal lobes is thousands of feet in the air in an aircraft. Edited March 28, 20233 yr by martin-w
March 28, 20233 yr Moderator 8 hours ago, Antipodeslonghaul said: But it'd be the only way I could think of off the top of my head to eliminate these incidents entirely. Perhaps installing a caged "brig" in which to restrain any unruly passengers might be a better, more humane way to handle these miscreants? 🤣 Fr. Bill AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556 Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator
March 28, 20233 yr 13 minutes ago, n4gix said: Perhaps installing a caged "brig" in which to restrain any unruly passengers might be a better, more humane way to handle these miscreants? How about one of the toilets because, if they have been drinking too much, sooner or later they are going to have to use one anyway? Dugald Walker
March 28, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, martin-w said: I should certainly hope so. Nonetheless, its on the rise... despite your "protocols". I'm 65, and years ago there was very little of this nonsense. Its a new trend. A new trend that's fueled by alcohol. Alcohol impairs the frontal lobes of the brain, the region responsible for cognition, thought memory and judgment. Thus people do dumb things when under the influence. So if alcohol is a causal factor for the issue, then ban it in airports and on planes. Its not a big issue for a person to go without booze for a few hours. The last place you need individuals with impaired frontal lobes is thousands of feet in the air in an aircraft. Those are not my "protocols" as you know. Before I go on my rotation, I would like to point out that those problems are not new. We faced these issues well before, cellphones, hysterical news media hungry for "a good story" or this new trend as not to properly persecute the offenders. 40, 30, 20 years ago, all these incidents occurred but, perhaps you were not familiar with them, because were not reported publicly. It's really funny, actually, I agree with certain statements. Not only that when those protocols are enforced correctly you still might get calls from the hire ups "was it necessary to act like that?" You mentioned a flight for a few hours duration without alcohol, I usually do nonstop between 14 to 18 hrs, can you imagine what will happen on those flights without serving alcohol? This it cannot be addressed and it will never be. And this is not the only problem we're facing up there, believe me, we can go forever about the new trends. It's not easy. 747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning.
March 28, 20233 yr I see KLM has upgraded from duct tape to handcuffs: https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/klm-flight-en-route-to-calgary-following-detour-back-to-amsterdam-due-to-unruly-passenger-1.6329630 Dugald Walker
March 28, 20233 yr 30 minutes ago, LRBS said: Those are not my "protocols" as you know. Your, as in your company... 30 minutes ago, LRBS said: I would like to point out that those problems are not new. We faced these issues well before, cellphones, hysterical news media hungry for "a good story" or this new trend as not to properly persecute the offenders. Yes, obviously, and the incidents are getting more frequent. See link above. 30 minutes ago, LRBS said: You mentioned a flight for a few hours duration without alcohol, I usually do nonstop between 14 to 18 hrs, can you imagine what will happen on those flights without serving alcohol? Seriously, If a person can't go 14 hours without alcohol they have serious issues. 30 minutes ago, LRBS said: This it cannot be addressed and it will never be. Of course it can, stop serving alcohol on planes. Edited March 28, 20233 yr by martin-w
March 28, 20233 yr Author 1 hour ago, martin-w said: Seriously, If a person can't go 14 hours without alcohol they have serious issues. When I lived in Utah you could only buy alcoholic beverages in state liquor stores. They had bars, but you had to bring your own bottle. Some bars had lockers where you cold store your bottles. I my state New Mexico, you cannot buy liquor on Sunday. In supermarkets where liquir is sold that are is rope off on Sunday. Other states have more stringent liquor laws. I agree, if a person cannot go 14 hours, or even a full day, without alcohol he/she has a serious problem. Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 28, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, martin-w said: Of course it can, stop serving alcohol on planes. How would you handle duty free alcohol, which would normally be carried on board? Dugald Walker
March 29, 20233 yr Author 1 hour ago, dmwalker said: How would you handle duty free alcohol, which would normally be carried on board? Do passengers who buy duty free alcohol normally consume it in flight or do they take it home with them? Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 29, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, birdguy said: Do passengers who buy duty free alcohol normally consume it in flight or do they take it home with them? If they were desperate, they would buy more than the duty free limit and consume the excess on the flight. Dugald Walker
March 29, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, dmwalker said: If they were desperate, they would buy more than the duty free limit and consume the excess on the flight. Do the airlines allow passengers to bring their own booze on board? Or would that be a very remote incident? And what would the cabin crew do in such a situation? Noel The tires are worn. The shocks are shot. The steering is wobbly. But the engine still runs fine.
March 29, 20233 yr 6 hours ago, dmwalker said: If they were desperate, they would buy more than the duty free limit and consume the excess on the flight. You can't. Regulations state that you arent allowed to consume alchol unless its served by a flight attendant.
March 29, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, martin-w said: You can't. Regulations state that you arent allowed to consume alchol unless its served by a flight attendant. There is always a way, whether it's surreptitiously in the darkness during a movie or using the privacy of a toilet. Dugald Walker
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