AVSIM Is Very Supressive When People Complain About FSX

[Guest Adrian Wainer]

I have been highly critical of FSX and did not get threads locked as a result or even criticised by the Mods for making such criticisms, which would suggest to me, that Avsim and its moderators are doing a fair job on these issues.Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

[Guest 2002cbr600f4i]

>>I specifically respond to this post because I feel offended,>but no moderator has deemed it proper to respond. So here I>go. I am an software testing professional. I make a very good>living out of it. I have access to all the hardware I could>possibly want. I STILL have issues with both Vista AND FSX.>Please don't insult me by stating that everyone with problems>does not know what he is talking about or does not have access>to the proper hardware. I am pretty sure I am at least as>knowledgeable as you are.Ok, I'm not going to start a flame war here... BUT...First - don't make an assumption of your skills vs mine. You test software... I WRITE software for a living. I'd say that at least makes us even there..Second, I made NO personal attacks against you, so why are you insulting me? All I said was that SO many of the posts I have seen since day 1 about FSX are by people complaining "it doesn't perform as well as FS9". Nevermind that they're often running on 5 yr old hardware and/or they are running FS9 on modern hardware and expecting similar performance out of FSX, ignoring that FSX is a more complex package, doing a lot more than FS9 did.If you have problems with FSX and/or Vista fine, you have problems. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are. Many of us are getting tired of seeing people complain insessently, attack those of us who ARE enjoying our experience or worse yet, attack the people from ACES who take time out of their day to come here and share information with us.Is FSX perfect? No.... Show me ONE piece of complex modern software that IS though? If you're a professional in the software industry, then you know as well as I do that the 80/20 rule applies. I'd say that FSX certainly (especially after SP1) is running well for 80% of the people out there. If it's not for you, then consider looking at your hardware configuration and upgrading, or just go back to FS9 if it was doing well for you. The snide comments, constant complaints and whining is getting old.The reality of PC gaming is that it's EXCEEDINGLY difficult to ensure good performance for everyone out there when the variations in hardware, software and drivers is insanely complex. It's not like in console gaming where you build to a set hardware/software spec and you know that if it runs on the first one off the assembly line, it'll run exactly the same on the last one as well. There's just no way to test every variation in PC gaming configurations.I am by NO means a lover of Microsoft as a company or a Windows lover. I don't agree with the choices they make for Windows (you won't see me running Vista for a LONG LONG time, and that'll only be when new games refuse to install on XP.) But I DO respect that Aces and Microsoft have to make those decisions and sometimes the choices they make will work for some people and not work for others. That's life.

[Guest Kasper Hanselman]

I am very sorry if I offended you, but read your own post please. I am not the one who is getting royally sick and tired of people, you are. The point I am making is that it seems to be OK to be rude, just be rude at people not happy with FSX.About your skills I have no judgement, I said I am pretty sure I am at least as knowledgeable. I still am. I have written software for OS390, UNIX/LINUX and MS platforms. Now I test and break software for a living. I have no problems with MS or Aces at all, but the fact remains that their software was plainly not ready when released and did not perform at all on duo (or more) core systems. I am happy that they are working on it but MS should not have released it when they did imho. I know how complex software is, gaming is by no stretch of the imagination the most complex, but that is no excuse. >Ok, I'm not going to start a flame war here... BUT...>>First - don't make an assumption of your skills vs mine. You>test software... I WRITE software for a living. I'd say that>at least makes us even there..>>Second, I made NO personal attacks against you, so why are you>insulting me? All I said was that SO many of the posts I have>seen since day 1 about FSX are by people complaining "it>doesn't perform as well as FS9". Nevermind that they're often>running on 5 yr old hardware and/or they are running FS9 on>modern hardware and expecting similar performance out of FSX,>ignoring that FSX is a more complex package, doing a lot more>than FS9 did.>>If you have problems with FSX and/or Vista fine, you have>problems. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are. Many of us>are getting tired of seeing people complain insessently,>attack those of us who ARE enjoying our experience or worse>yet, attack the people from ACES who take time out of their>day to come here and share information with us.>>Is FSX perfect? No.... Show me ONE piece of complex modern>software that IS though? If you're a professional in the>software industry, then you know as well as I do that the>80/20 rule applies. I'd say that FSX certainly (especially>after SP1) is running well for 80% of the people out there. >If it's not for you, then consider looking at your hardware>configuration and upgrading, or just go back to FS9 if it was>doing well for you. The snide comments, constant complaints>and whining is getting old.>>The reality of PC gaming is that it's EXCEEDINGLY difficult to>ensure good performance for everyone out there when the>variations in hardware, software and drivers is insanely>complex. It's not like in console gaming where you build to a>set hardware/software spec and you know that if it runs on the>first one off the assembly line, it'll run exactly the same on>the last one as well. There's just no way to test every>variation in PC gaming configurations.>>I am by NO means a lover of Microsoft as a company or a>Windows lover. I don't agree with the choices they make for>Windows (you won't see me running Vista for a LONG LONG time,>and that'll only be when new games refuse to install on XP.)>But I DO respect that Aces and Microsoft have to make those>decisions and sometimes the choices they make will work for>some people and not work for others. That's life.

[n4gix 4,947]

>I have no problems with MS or>Aces at all, but the fact remains that their software was>plainly not ready when released and did not perform at all on>duo (or more) core systems. I am happy that they are working>on it but MS should not have released it when they did imho. I>know how complex software is, gaming is by no stretch of the>imagination the most complex, but that is no excuse. Well, that's just fine! It might just be that I even agree with your analysis, but......it's past history. The bell once rung cannot be unrung. There's little (in fact NO) point in continuously restating the blindingly obvious, other than to keep one's own - and by extension, everyone else's - blood pressure elevated. :-lol The only thing of importance at this juncture is that from all indications, the "lesson has been learned: once burned, twice shy!"It is abundantly clear to me that going forward, the same mistakes won't be made... Of course there are always going to be new mistakes, but that's just part of the human experience. :-beerchug

[Guest Stoopy]

May I concur with what Adrian says absolutely. I do most of my "hanging out" at another sim-oriented site basically because my interests run in a slightly different vein of simulation (non-commercial but more regular GA, bush, rotary-wing and combat) and I feel quite fortunate that Adrian is a member there as well, as he often brings quite a bit to a discussion and it is ALWAYS worthwhile reading his contributions. While it's clear FSX has not been a successful endeavor for him, and it has been for me, it's always been a feet-on-the-ground levelheaded conversation, without exaggerations to any extreme good or bad.And that, I feel, is not only the way to productively discuss what is supposed to be a relaxing pursuit in our free time, but it most effectively allows either party to see the other side's point and, ultimately, help each other if possible. In that light, even the shortest posts become contributions in the purest sense of the term, and hence are never feared to be subject for locking/deleting.Thank you very kindly, Adrian!ErichP.S. Whatever the expirement is that's mentioned in the original post, is it succeeding or failing?

[nudata 10]

Who knows. I wonder how many feel that I am insane but are now restrained from making that interesting expression. RFANAL@YAHOO.COM has been setup for such expressions. Sticks and stones ---- etc....Regards,Dick BoleyA PC, an LCD, speakers, CH yoke

[Guest Stoopy]

>Who knows. I wonder how many feel that I am insane but are>now restrained from making that interesting expression.If so, any such restraint is highly likely self-imposed and is what used to be simply be referred to as "manners" back when society was comprised of face-to-face conversation. Which is something no moderator can teach nor should be expected to, in my own very humble opinion.However, if the experiment has at least led to theory, then I'd consider it a success!:-beerchug

[LAdamson 240]

>If so, any such restraint is highly likely self-imposed and is>what used to be simply be referred to as "manners" back when>society was comprised of face-to-face conversation. Which is>something no moderator can teach nor should be expected to, in>my own very humble opinion.>Everything I type, is based on "face to face", as I feel that many seem to hide behind the Internet wall; which convientently avoids my "fist" contacting their teeth! :-hah I'm just old school I suppose, and go by the rule of treating others, the way you'd want to be treated.L.Adamson

[Geofa 108]

Yeah-but you are over 50-as am I now?! I think we are dated..manners? face to face? :lol (you shill you)Even my 19 year son commented on the dinner table next to us tonight at a restaurant-a husband and wife and two kids... The wife was on the cell phone-the husband on the cell phone and the two kids glued to individual video games-a nice night out. Perhaps civility, manners, respect, and even tuning in are a thing of the past. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest Stoopy]

'Zactly. All the more reason to buck the trend to make those things, things of the past. Well anyway I just wanted to say hey to Adrian so won't chime in no mo', so this thread can keep going whatever way it's going....

[Geofa 108]

I agree totally-the fact that my 19 year old son commented on it gives me some hope for the next generation. e.g. my day was made..grin on my face..http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest S77th-GOYA]

>Anger does not equal what is not accepted here.>>Take a look at timer15's post above-one of the most eloquent>and well expressed posts I have seen.I would say that the majority of times anger is the driving force behind a poster not being civil/polite. It is simply human nature. timer15 doesn't seem angry at all. He seems to have accepted defeat.And one can easily make the case that a response of "It runs good on my system" to someone who is venting about poor performance on his machine is a rude and non-constructive post.I don't mean to press a debate on the subject but I just hate to see someone scorned or labelled a troublemaker because they post angrily about their experience with a product they paid for like the rest of us. In some cases, anger is understandable given that flight simming tends to be made up of people that are very passionate about it.

[Geofa 108]

...and that is why I said anger does not equal what is not accepted here...granted it is a double negative-the grammer could be better.Search the posts-there are many that have not been locked that have anger.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest S77th-GOYA]

>And one can easily make the case that a response of "It runs>good on my system" to someone who is venting about poor>performance on his machine is a rude and non-constructive>post.Ironic, isn't it?http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=417312&page=

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

It appears to me that "it runs smoooth on my system" may say as much about the expectations of the poster as about the performance of his system..OK, he does not seem to have any issues, good for him. That is why it is nice to have many folks who read these forums, it increases your chances that someone may have an answer to your question.If rude and personal attack responses prevail, many fewer will want to read the posts, much less respond in an informative fashion. That said, I have a CH Flightstick and have not noticed any discrete steps in the FSX controls.